Citation: Nonna. "Not Good for Benzo Withdrawals: An Experience with Kratom (exp79728)". Erowid.org. Aug 4, 2009. erowid.org/exp/79728
Purchased 28g (1 oz) in the form of 50 capsules from online vendor. This is my first experience with kratom & I prefer to be conservative with new drugs/herbs. I am a recovering addict, who has noticeably begun withdrawing from benzodiazepines which I stopped just over 2 weeks ago. I am looking for something to help with the withdrawal symptoms, as well as provide a nice euphoria. While I am in recovery for addiction from cocaine, I have never had difficulties managing my life on marijuana, which I smoked for 17 years religiously, but obviously it is frowned upon to smoke in recovery. Nonetheless, I like a good euphoric herb, and the descriptions I have read about kratom seem to meet what I am looking for - a non-addictive, pleasant herb which will assist with benzo withdrawal as well as provide a mild high. Should I classify myself as in recovery? Probably not since I won't tell my sponsor about this. On the other hand, I fully intend to remain cocaine & marijuana-free (even if it is 'just for today'), so this may be a nice alternative.
After 20 years of smoking cigarettes, I quit 6 months ago. I have never had the desire to restart since quitting. I have no other drugs at all in my system, save for the remnants of any Valium or Xanax I took for the last time 16 days ago. I have never abused opiates, though I did try to abuse them(!) When I did try taking two 750 mg Vicodan pills on one occasion, & 1 Percocet pill (dosage undetermined) in the past, all I did was itch & feel nothing else, least of all pain relief. Never understood the propensity others have for abusing this stuff. For me, they simply didn't work. I have experienced a phenomenal high from Demerol injections on the 2 occasions in which I was given it in a hospital setting under a doctor's care for surgical/medical procedures only. I am alone at home, and while I do have a few minor responsibilities to take care of - post office, movie plans for the evening, etc. - there's nothing pressing that can't be put off for now, though of course the excitement of trying a new herb got the best of me and as soon as the package arrived today and as a result, I put all my responsibilities onto the back burner.
1:45 pm - Ate 3 slices of pizza (remains to be seen if this was a bad idea, as most reports say to take this on an empty stomach) took 1.12g (2 capsules) of powdered Kratom/cayenne blend (designed for those with sensitive stomachs) in capsule form. After 1 hour, no noticeable effects except for an extremely mild visual sensitivity. Slight desire to do something productive like clean up all the dog shit in my yard, but decided against doing that. Did make a nice healthy B.M. however!
2:43 pm - Decided to take 2 more capsules. Small fear that I will have a bad reaction, that my withdrawal symptoms (electric shock feelings, skin & muscle soreness, headache, irritability, etc.) will be enhanced, but it may be purely mental due to the fact that I'm in recovery. Curiosity got the better of me however. It usually does.
3:18 pm - Vaguely aware of some systemic effects: a gentle calm. Nothing spectacular. Aware of an increase in my heart rate & shallower breathing, but nothing major by any stretch of the imagination.
3:40 pm - Very mild stimulation. I want to take 2 more capsules but understand that the pizza may cause the onset to take several hours so I am refraining. If this does not work at the total of 2.24g, I will try again another day with 6 capsules at one time. This time, however, I will stick to a trial dose to see how it affects me. I am having no troubles thinking or typing. I am lucid & have a nice boost of internal energy that I was not expecting. My plan was to take a nap if this didn't work, however that seems unlikely. Feel like I could share quite well at an NA meeting right now, but I don't want to drive nor talk to other recovering addicts while experimenting on self-prescribed medicines!
3:57 pm - decide to put on some music, as almost all reports mention this as pleasant. Definitely notice a deeper quality to the sound than ever before. Listened to this song a thousand times, but this time I can make out all the instruments as well as all the words. Clarity is phenomenal. At the same time I am able to type without losing focus (I have ADD, and I can NEVER listen to music & concentrate on what I am trying to write). My typing actually seems to have improved, & with the music on, I am definitely aware of a nice yet extremely mild euphoria.
4:00 pm - Definitely notice a decrease in the withdrawal symptoms from the benzos - I do not feel like I am crawling out of my skin anymore. My headache & muscle pains have been inhibited. I am interested in experiencing life. Too bad all my friends are in recovery because I'd love to be sharing this with someone else, and I am not much of a social butterfly; even on ecstasy, I had preferred to be alone in the past. Acid & weed were the only drugs I really ever enjoyed doing with others.
4:11 pm - Played my guitar & I am either clearly more adept at playing, or it sounds better to me aurally. Probably the latter. I am itchy; only very, very slightly, though. No nausea at all. Itching passed after a moment.
4:36 pm - Got a very negative email from an ex-sponsor, and while it bothers me, I was able to clearly express my opinion & respond. I am slightly miffed, but refuse to let this affect my enjoyable experience. This is rare, as my irritability has been off the charts lately. No more increase in euphoria. Beginning to wonder if I should go to the movies later or stay home & take 2 more capsules, as I want to maximize my time on the kratom. I know I will not attempt to use the pills for another few days so that I am careful to avoid any potential dependence. No more itching.
4:54 pm - Took 3 more capsules; let's do the damn thing. Total of 3.92 g taken between 1:45 until now. Very gradually increased dosage, still on the low side of suggested dosing. Just like when I took the first 2 pills, I made another seemingly stimulant-enhanced b.m. Maybe more than you wanted to know but, hey, it's a physical aspect that's worth noting. On that topic, the b.m. was not difficult to do, effortless yet consistent - not cocaine diarrhea nor anything too solid. Simply a perfect shit if there ever was one - nice clean wipe, too!
5:24 pm - Had the motivation to clean up the dog poop in the yard & take care of some eBay business. My ability to remain centered & in control of my actions is commendable. I am hoping to feel some more sedative effects with the last intake, as I am more stimulated than sedated, but it's not a bad (read: jittery) stimulation. Just a focused, meditative awareness of what needs to get done & the energy to do it. Other than doing the tasks that require driving, I am able to prioritize & motivated to accomplish the chores at hand. A very interesting experience. When I read that kratom has both a stimulant & a sedative effect, I would not have imagined this. It is extremely pleasant so far.
5:30 pm - Definitely heightened visual effects. Not hallucinatory; just light-sensitive & keenly conscious of a shift in spatial awareness. Colors & minor details in furniture that I am looking at are more pronounced & vibrant, sort of like the end of a nice trip, or in the very beginning, just before the trails start. Perhaps because I have tripped so many times, it is triggering a minor flashback effect. I am also a little more itchy. Sounds are more vivid, and I am aware of the distance of sound, which is an interesting phenomenon; I can easily differentiate between what sounds are close by vs. far away, more keenly than normal. Not quite as obvious as determining visual distance; then again, this isn't a side effect I have ever really experienced with any drug or herb, including acid, mushrooms, mescaline & MDMA, so it is kind of cool. It dawns on me that this is probably how my dogs use their nose to smell, and are capable of distinguishing a smell that is close by with one that is off in the distance.
6:37 pm - Not much change. More relaxed. Decided to stay in rather than go to the movies in case there's more to this, but so far it's pretty mellow. I was both expecting & fearing more, so this is pretty good. May take a couple more capsules since I'll be in for the night & I am nowhere near the 6 to 9 g I was planning on taking.
6:45 pm - took 4 more capsules. So that's 6.16 g. Still on the lower side of suggested dose.
6:56 pm - My pupils are like little pinpricks. Interesting. I'm used to feeling this type of simultaneous visual narrowing & expansion of space but with HUGE pupils that are very light sensitive. My eyes are very constricted yet I am still conscious of this type of deviation from the norm, as well as increased light sensitivity in my vision.
7:02 pm - My stomach is rumbling a bit. Not nauseous but it feels like my tummy finally became aware of something unfamiliar. Can't distinguish whether I am hungry or whether my belly is feeling a very minor upset. Will wait to see how this unfolds, but I do have a rather nice Asian Pear salad in my fridge which I would love to devour.
7:09 pm - Stimulating effects again. Could I possibly have another b.m. inside my colon?! Increased heart rate. At the same time, I am warm & sedated. The effects are so neat! This is like a dream herb. I feel as if I am floating but also quite dialed in to life and my environment. Rad, trippy feeling. I am serene & tranquil. I do not feel like I am high on anything, just more focused on the positive aspects of my internal & external surroundings. My sexual desire is magnificently heightened. Kratom certainly enhances all the aspects of life that should be enhanced, and I do not feel negative or bad in any way, shape or form. At the same time, I have no desire to test my limits. I don't plan on taking any more of this today. So now it's just time to sit back, relax & document the experience.
7:32 pm - Ate a small portion of the salad - a few mixed greens, 2 or 3 raspberries, a few walnuts, small piece of feta cheese & small slices of glazed pears. One swig of Diet Pepsi. Now steeping a tea that came as a supplement to the kratom designed to enhance its effectiveness. Tea consists of blue lotus, hibiscus, red poppy & chamomile. I am going to drink the tea with 5 more capsules. That will be a total of 8.4 g, 15 capsules total @ .56 g each. That's as much as I want to take today.
7:46 pm - Drinking the tea with 5 additional & final capsules. Went outside to let the dogs out and the cool breeze feels simply phenomenal. I feel as if there is a halo of light above my head, or a spotlight just outside of my realm of vision. It's really bizarre in a good, comforting way. My stomach is making all sorts of growling noises.
8:01 pm - My breathing is noticeably shallower, but not to the point of unease. I have to consciously take deep breaths. I am absolutely loving this! My stomach is still grumbling but I am not hungry. I feel like I am still floating. My entire body is relaxed, although I am still aware of the benzo withdrawal symptoms, yet they are much more subdued.
8:07 pm - I am a little sweaty now, probably from the tea, and my hands & ears are itchy. I feel like I am definitely at a good level. I am excited to see what happens at this dose.
8:13 pm - Apparently the effects come & go in waves.
8:56 pm - No nausea but my stomach has been a bit grumbly. No other changes have appeared, and the intensity of the overall effect seems to be capped off. Perhaps it's because I gradually increased the amount. Next time I do this, I plan to take 8 capsules right from the get-go, then another 7 a bit after to reach the 15 capsule dose I took today. I am hoping the effects get stronger, but I am just relaxed. Weirdly stimulated still. I don't know why I have very little response to anything opiate-like; I have never gotten anything from Vicodin or Percocet, just this same itchy feeling. I guess that's good - I don't want to like it too much, given my propensity for abuse. Anyway, I am still relaxed, yet some muscles (neck, back) seem mildly sore, but it could be the position I'm in. I definitely am itchy, and sounds are still enhanced. Oddly enough, i still feel the stimulant effect. My heart rate still seems slightly rapid, and I have a mild sense of 'fight or flight'; if a sudden loud noise occurs, I get that cocaine jitter response, but it's not nearly as pronounced. It still takes a bit of effort to take a deep breath, but again, it is nothing alarming. All of the effects are pretty mild, even at 8.4 g. I wouldn't recommend taking any more than this though for a first time experience.
9:19 pm - I'm definitely rather itchy. and I have been urinating very often, more so since I drank 2 mugs of the lotus/poppy tea. I am feeling a tiny, tiny bit nauseous, but I'm not quite near actually vomiting. Lying in the dark on my back helps. I'd like to put music on & just chill, but there's some stuff I need to do online first.
9:36 pm - Now it's relatively paradoxical. I am very jittery, having to constantly rapidly shake my leg. My breathing is quite shallow, and my heart rate very rapid. I am no longer relaxed or sedated, although I do have a floaty feel & am quite itchy all over. My stomach is in a knot, and I have waves of nausea. Sounds are still distinct, but I am more tuned into the fight or flight reaction. A car backfiring moments ago sent me into a state of alertness. My hands are shaking. Strangely enough, this is the feeling that I have taken the benzos to avoid. It's no longer fun. I realize that a 6 to 7 g dose is probably optimal. It remains to be seen how long this stage will last, or if it will worsen or get better. I do want to make myself throw up, but I am trying to contain the nausea. It should pass shortly, hopefully.
9:55 pm - No decrease in effects. Still nauseous.
10:02 pm-10:30 pm - Laid in the dark listening to music. Effects have not subsided. My jaw is clenched, my muscles are stiff. My legs are restless, and I feel compelled to shake my leg constantly. My entire body is tense. I am able to talk myself into being calm. My thoughts are still perfectly grounded in reality, yet I am not enjoying it anymore. I am a bit spacey, jumping from one thought to the next, and I am feeling mildly vindictive, particularly about the nasty email I received earlier. My nausea has decreased as I lay in the dark, but the other physical stimulation is apparent. I am like a deer in headlights. A very speedy feeling all over, yet I am super itchy.
This is a weird herb! I cannot say it is bad however, just that I know not to take this amount next time. It was definitely pleasurable & certainly helped the withdrawals up to approximately 6 g. I advise against taking more the first time until one sees how one will react on this. I am hungry, but fear that eating will make me nauseous again. I will wait until 11 pm, and if I am craving food I will eat then. It could also be because I only have 3 pieces of pizza & several small bites of that salad in my system all day. Maybe eating would help. And its also possible that the tea exacerbated the effects, as it is supposed to supplement the herb. The tea in combination with those last 5 capsules certainly took me over the edge from pleasurable to unenjoyable.
10:34 pm - Effects are SLIGHTLY less pronounced. Remains to be seen whether this is a wave & they will return strongly, or if the effects are in fact subsiding. I do not regret the amount I took because now I know where to draw the line with this particular kratom formula, and it has not been unbearable. Just unpleasant for 2 hours or so, but I am fully cognizant of the fact that time will decrease the effects, & since it seems to be a relatively safe herb & I am in a calm, relaxing environment, I am able to deal with the anxiety of these past 2 hours.
10:48 pm - Took a sip of soda & it lessened the nausea, which had come back slightly. As a result, I am now eating matzoh & drinking soda, as this generally dissipates my nausea. Still feeling jittery.
11:09 pm - Matzoh & soda definitely helped. My stomach is not nearly as upset, and although I am still jittery, it was evident that it got much milder once I had consumed something. Nowhere near baseline, but infinitely better than I was an hour ago.
11:24 pm - Effects still lessening, though I still am aware that I am mildly jittery & itchy. I'm gonna eat more matzoh. That was a good move.
11:39 pm - Nausea incrementally subsided thanks to every bite of matzoh. Still aware that I have taken something new to my system today, and the jitters are now coming & going. Would like them to be replaced with a calm sedation, but beggars can't be choosers.
11:49 pm - Still jittery. Would love this to pass already. I'd love to take a Xanax, but that would be counterproductive. Conclusion: I do not believe that kratom is effective for benzo withdrawals. I can see it as effective for opiate dependence, I suppose. For me, it brought back too much of that cocaine-y feel, even though it was nowhere near as intense. My reason for the trial was to see if it would effectively aide in minimizing the benzo withdrawals, and while it did for a few hours, it is not something I would ever take regularly, and the rebound effect of the anxiety was exacerbated. It left me with a more notable desire for a Xanax to counteract the jitters, which could easily lead to a vicious cyclical endeavor.
11:58 pm - Another b.m.! Unreal! My heart rate is still up & I am definitely still feeling jitters, muscle tension & very mild nausea in waves. I'd love to sleep but that doesn't seem anywhere near a possibility yet.
12:02 am - False alarm on the b.m. As soon as I got up & got to the bathroom, a wave of nausea came over me. So much for the matzoh panacea. Trying to hold it down, but I think a nice puke might be necessary.
12:09 am - Just vomited. Heart is racing again. Surprised at what came up. This may be a little graphic but necessary: pieces of the lettuce from earlier along with a whole bunch of the kratom that had not been digested yet. It was not thrown up in the capsules - obviously those had been consumed. There was, however, a lot of the kratom in my stomach. It all came up freely & rapidly. I am still jittery & spacey. Nothing more fun than puking with no benefit. Sheesh. My stomach does feel a bit better though it is still churning something awful.
12:23 am - OK, I'm ready for this to be over. It has lessened immensely but I am still feeling the effects. I just can't stand being jittery at all. To me its the WORST feeling, and its the reason I was taking benzos to begin with. Still shaking my leg, and I want to puke again. i can still hear sounds that I haven't noticed before... the distinct whir of each & every propeller of my ceiling fan, cars passing that are blocks away from my house.
12:34 am - This is definitely interesting stuff that I took too much of for my first (and last) time. Heart is still beating fast & uneven-like. Arm, neck, shoulder & back muscles are sore. I keep wanting to stretch. Still itchy, and I have a mild headache. My stomach is unsettled still.
1:02 am - Still exactly the same as an hour ago. Does this end???
1:12 am - I feel horrible. SO nauseous. Jittery. Achy & sore. I'd love to go to sleep but my stomach is turning over & over. Not a fan anymore.
1:27 am - Puked again. Now dry heaves; there's nothing left to throw up. My boyfriend said to drink water so there's something to vomit. This is shitty. Sipping water. Definitely not feeling too hot. I'm surprised, but I guess I shouldn't be.
1:56 am - My jaw is still clenching. Effects are staying exactly the same. Jitters & soreness is worse. This is wacky. I have to try to sleep this off. I will update more in morning with hangover/post-dose effects. Gonna try to sleep. Wish me luck!
2:47 am - Still awake, effects are STILL pronounced & just as pronounced as before. Total fight or flight sensation. I feel bad for anyone who is hooked on opiates. What a gnarly withdrawal that must be...
3:22 am - no change. Itchy. Restless legs. Sore.
3:52 am - Puked up all the water I've been sipping on. This absolutely bites. Itching like mad, muscles beyond achy, nauseous, restless, hot & cold but not sweaty or feverish, just very sensitive to the fan & covers, whether they are both on or off, jaw is still tight, fidgety, can't sleep. Super sore in my shoulders. I'm sure I need nourishment but nothing stays down.
4:32 am - Really? I almost don't want to post this because I don't want to be the party pooper. I'm sure this is a great herb for those with opiate experience. Seeing as how I don't have any - and tried this to alleviate benzo withdrawal - i am thinking it enhanced the benzo withdrawals. Because I took more than I probably should have for my 1st experience, my system was unprepared. Anyway, I am ready to take a Xanax but am just holding off. The last thing I want is to take the damn meds I was trying to take the kratom with which to help me with the withdrawals! Besides, I can't keep anything down in my stomach.
7:19 am - Woke up feeling a thousand times better. In fact I feel great! About to eat breakfast - we'll see how that goes down; it's my normal breakfast of slice of pizza & Diet Pepsi. Probably not the greatest idea, but it's cheap, and it's here. What a facocked night. I did have some interesting dreams though. I clearly remember what I was doing, who I was with, all the feelings involved... pretty intense because I spent half the dream in an NA meeting with people who couldn't be farther from recovering addicts - one of them was this relentless alcoholic who will die with a beer in her hand. Guilt? Perhaps... I must have taken too much, although by most accounts, I took what was an acceptably mild starting amount. I don't think I will do that again. The negative effects lasting from 10 pm-ish until almost 5 am just weren't worth it. I can see the benefit to this if someone has an opiate addiction; if not, there's no reason to have it. Smoke some friggin' weed.
7:45 am - Just ate the pizza, would love to go back to sleep, as I am now feeling less good than I was 30 minutes ago. Heart rate has increased, or at least I am more aware of it. Mild muscle soreness & jitters have returned slightly.
1:22 pm - Woke again, ate another slice of pizza. Things seem back to normal; no nausea. Slight hints of what yesterday had in store throughout my body. Don't think I'm a candidate for doing that again, but worth it the first time just to know how kratom works firsthand. I imagine this is a miracle herb for people trying to kick an opiate addiction, but for benzo withdrawals, I do not recommend.
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