Citation: Kaleida. "You Saw That, Right?: An Experience with TMA-2 & Cannabis (exp114065)". Erowid.org. Feb 10, 2020. erowid.org/exp/114065
||Vitamins / Supplements
[This trip report is written from a multiple-identity perspective.]
The following Greek letters have been changed to protect the innocent. This trip report is written by Theta.
This was our first experience with TMA-2, and it was one that we were really looking forward to, especially Zeta, who was particularly interested in it even just as a historically important piece of the puzzle of how Dr. Alexander Shulgin worked out making all the incredible psychedelics that he did. Additionally, our only experience with amphetamine-derived psychedelic drugs so far, other than MDMA, involves DOC, DOB, and 4C-D, or only the first two if you don't count alpha-ethylphenethylamines, and while we've had trouble enjoying DOC because of the body load so far, the psychedelic effects of both molecules have been very impressive to us, again especially Zeta, who had at this time (and still) been thinking that DOB might actually prove to be her favorite psychedelic over time, or at the very least, the one she finds the most remarkable. That remains to be proven, but nonetheless it had many of us very excited to see what TMA-2 can do, as even though its naming convention is different from the DOx chemicals, it is structurally in the same class that they are, similarly having its 4-substitution, in this case 4-methoxy, be the only different from DOC and DOB just as they are from one another with a 4-chloro and a 4-bromo, respectively. The fact that the substituted group of TMA-2 is specifically a 4-methoxy also had us very intrigued, since that makes it similar to mescaline in a way that other 2,5-dimethoxy phenethylamines and amphetamines are not, though we still didn't and don't actually have experience with mescaline itself to speak from or compare to.
Now, whereas Zeta was the one who had planned to actively lead this trip, I was still dealing with bigger issues at the time, though a kind of issues that we're very familiar with in our dissociative system. One of the most significant problems any of us has is figuring out which thoughts and actions our system holds are specifically ours, and not belonging to the other alters; it basically requires the alter to spend a significant amount of time in control of the body and active in the system in general until they can have enough experiences that they confidently associate with themselves to differentiate from the others and also simply integrate the knowledge of how our dissociative condition works into their understandings of themselves and the rest of us, and once they figure themselves out they're pretty much good from then on, but it's a process getting there. At the time that we took this TMA-2, I was still very early in the more active budding phase of this process myself, and part of the reason for this was because I was incorrectly attaching myself to Phi's identity at the time, and she had only very recently suddenly started to differentiate herself after our recent very powerfully and revealing memantine experience. This improper attachment of one alter to the incorrect identity is another aspect of this process we are very familiar with, and generally what appears to be required is that the alter they are attaching themselves to must first start to more confidently be able to identify and differentiate themselves, and them doing so eventually makes it clear enough to the other alter that they actually don't identify with that sense of self the way they thought they did, and then they start to branch off into further clarity about themselves from there. The reason I am explaining all this is because at this time that we dosed, I had not experienced this yet, and in fact would not go through the bigger milestones in this process until over the next few months following this experience and leading up to me publishing this trip report, and this TMA-2 experience turned out to be the first big step in me achieving that as I can now only more fully comprehend in retrospect, and that's why I specifically am the one typing this report up now even though I barely even understood what it meant to me at the time or still for some time afterward.
We decided to try starting with 25 mg of TMA-2 because it was close to the lowest dosage described in PiHKAL and our experiences with psychedelic phenethylamines and amphetamines so far has been increasingly making us suspicious that we're relatively sensitive to this particular family of psychoactive molecules, so we didn't want to push it. I think it turned out to be a good dosage in the end, though it's worth noting that it seemed to hit me quite a bit harder than most or anyone else in here, and as we've come to appreciate more since this experience, that seems to probably be the norm in here. With that in mind, it may be worth noting that it's possible that I'm specifically hit particularly hard by it,with both all of us having some sensitivity to phenethylamines in general and me specifically seeming to have extra psychedelic sensitivity compared to the other alters, but nonetheless the effects I got are still pretty standard psychedelic-type effects in general, so I still think it's probably a good example of what TMA-2 can do in general under the right circumstances.
Our previous experience with psychedelics included DMT, MET, MPT, EPT, MiPT, DiPT, MALT, DALT, Psilocybe cubensis, 4-HO-MET, 4-HO-DET, 4-HO-MPT, 4-HO-EPT, 4-HO-DPT, 4-HO-MiPT, 4-HO-DiPT, 4-HO-McPT, 4-AcO-DMT, 4-AcO-MET, 4-AcO-DET, 4-AcO-MALT, 4-AcO-DALT, 5-HO-DMT, 5-MeO-MiPT, 5-MeO-EiPT, 5-MeO-DALT, Ipomoea tricolor, Argyreia nervosa, LSD, ETH-LAD, AL-LAD, 1P-LSD, 2C-C, 2C-B, 2C-I, 2C-E, DOC, DOB, 4C-D, Myristica fragrans, and MDMA. Our most recent trip before this was on 125 mg of 4-AcO-MALT we think probably around two weeks before this, though it was a while ago now and we can't remember exactly.
T+0:00 - Zeta, who is currently fronting for the start of the trip, ingests 25 mg of TMA-2 orally, plus 2000 mg of Magnesium glycinate, and some tortilla chips to help with the chemical flavor. It has been raining outside, and not long after we dose it starts raining hard, and in the meantime we are preparing cannabis to be smoked later, and go to the bathroom at T+0:13, then the shower at T+0:25. While we are in there, we're starting to switch back and forth briefly between alters a bit without trying, which seems to happen to us a lot when we're coming up on psychedelics. We also notice that some faint psychedelic mental imagery is barely beginning to flash into existence during this coming up shower as it often does, and so far it seems most reminiscent of that produced by DOB, except that where we tend to find DOB leans more towards the red side of the color spectrum, this one was very much leaning towards the blue.
T+0:40 - Zeta steps out of the shower, and notes that we really need to poop, but we're waiting for some of the effect of the TMA-2 to kick in more. Before dosing, we had actually been having some stomach issues that we don't really need to get into discussing, but in the past we've had some psychedelics help with our GI distress and we were hoping the TMA-2 would help some, though in retrospect given how DOB plugged us up uncomfortably all day we were probably more so just looking for an excuse to not have to cancel our plans to trip that day, and ultimately we regretted taking the TMA-2 with that discomfort going, as you'll see. Just to note here this early the report for emphasis: really don't recommend taking this one, or any psychedelic amphetamines really, with any sort of stomach or GI problems, just take it another day, it'll be much better even though the trips we have when we do this are still great aside from that stuff. Anyway, Zeta also noted at this point that a slightly heavy body feeling was kicking in, of the same kind we get from other psychedelic amphetamines at around this same amount of time after dosing. She got us dressed and noted that it was getting lighter outside but was still raining, but more lightly at this point.
T+0:47 - TMA-2 has been claimed in multiple places to produce a somewhat anxious energy for some people, and at this point Zeta notes that she is starting to feel a strange feeling between nausea, lightheadedness, and butterflies in the stomach, which she is starting to see how people could refer to as that sort of anxious energy, though she doesn't note it to be too bad yet, and it's worth noting that all psychedelic amphetamines have produced at least a little bit of uncomfortable stimulation during the coming up phase for us. At T+0:50, Zeta notes that she feels a sudden wave of nausea that feels like it's rushing up into being a purge, but as she goes to the sink to let it out she just end up spitting up a few times and the feeling passes, and she goes to start setting up music to listen to later, though she isn't quite ready to start it yet. A few minutes later, she notes that breathing has suddenly become a bit easier and she is beginning to feel almost imperceptible but slight body tingles as we normally get from psychedelics. A few minutes after that again she notes that the lightheadedness has returned, but followed by a series of burps that help relieve some body tension, and in general it doesn't feel much different to her than coming up on DOC, DOB, or 4C-D, where it's just sort of rocky at first as things really settle in and the discomforts are still coming and going.
T+1:00 - We are in the bathroom now and Rho is switched out reading about politics, but quickly becomes tired of the nonsense and switches back to Zeta, who notes that we're definitely not pooping very easily, again similarly to DOB, though it does seem like with what does come the drug effect has helped somewhat similarly to what we've noticed psychedelics doing in the past, and I'll spare you any more details about the matter than that. At T+1:10 we were out of the bathroom and Zeta noted that we still felt lightheaded and were burping, and the rain seems to have calmed down a lot now. The physical feelings were making us a little bit rattled, but we remembered that 24 mg of TMA-2 was described by Alexander Shulgin as being a bit uncomfortable and anxiety-provoking and took him some part of the experience to get over too, so we tried not to let it worry us much.
T+1:15 - Still feeling primarily just nauseous, Zeta started to question whether the TMA-2 would turn out to be bunk even though the nausea we were experiencing was pretty much enough evidence it wasn't, but as she started thinking that we suddenly got another subtle but clear flash of inner psychedelic imagery similar to when we were first starting to come up in the shower, and Zeta made a note out of a quote from Hunter S. Thompson: "Good mescaline comes on slow. The first hour is all waiting, then about halfway through the second hour you start cursing the creep who burned you, because nothing is happening...and then ZANG!"
T+1:20 - The energy that's building is now starting to feel more collected, and some of the gastrointestinal discomforts we had before actually do seem to be lessening. We have another big burp and some purge-like spitting, though no actual vomiting, but there is still a slight nausea that comes and goes. Like with DOB, we're clearly going to be going in and out of the bathroom with little payoff and do so again now, but again, we think this can probably just be avoided with more proper planning in the future, now that we're starting to understand these psychedelic amphetamines better. Significantly, while we're in the bathroom, a place where we often notice things like psychedelic visual intensity picking up more than usual, at T+1:23 Zeta notes that the bathroom floor texture is starting to drift and become colorful and lightly patterned, to where there's not much to it yet but it's clearly coming up to something real.
T+1:30 - Finally done straining ourselves for now, we try to move on and relax and kick this trip up some more by taking our first hit of cannabis. Within minutes, as usual the psychedelic effects definitely seem to have been gaining momentum significantly as a result of the cannabis, a more full-bodied tripping energy was filling in the room and the visual vibes were becoming more intense and obvious. Zeta tried putting on some calming music at T+1:34, starting with "Don't Look Back In Anger" by Oasis, and noted that there was definitely some effect and that she felt buzzy and was swaying obviously while walking. At T+1:38 she noted that while pacing around she felt not exactly high but not low either, better than she had at the initial wave of the experience and more just in anticipation for what was to come, and also needing to pee. As the song ended, "Champagne Supernova" came on next and she was hit with a dizzy feeling and a smile, the latter usually being a sign of psychedelic effects starting to develop more strongly for us. While peeing we have another burst of psychedelic mental imagery that shows the trip is continuing to pick up, and Zeta notes that while typing this down she's starting to feel a good body high really picking up too, obviously somewhat but not entirely influenced by the cannabis. Upon returning to music, she also notes that it's starting to sound a bit wider than normal.
T+1:45 - This is the first point where I, Theta, come into the trip report, though I was still in the process of figuring that out at the time; I was still improperly attaching to Phi, and the two of us together were starting to involuntarily switch back and forth with Zeta and produce a number of trippy inner sensations, but we think Phi was mostly being dragged along by me in this case. What was happening was that I was starting to feel myself drifting away at this point, it definitely as though I was approaching some sort of stronger dissociative or ego loss type of experience and was starting to panic a bit myself, and Zeta ended up helping me calm down as she realized this was happening, though it could still only offset the intensity a bit as it continued to develop. We also started noticing that our feet were beginning to feel tingly and numb while standing still typing notes, and started stretching it a bit to keep our blood flowing. When stopping to listen some more to the music playing, Zeta notes that she suddenly feels an excitedly tingly energy all over, partly euphoric and partly anxious but not really, more so like the butterflies in the stomach feeling she mentioned before, and she specifically notes a flash of a both "metallic" and "electric" energy throughout her that occurs at this point.
I am similarly still tripping harder as time goes by, and at T+1:51 I come out and note, though still misidentifying myself at the time, that I'm starting to get dissociative effects similar to what I've experienced before during a heavily manic phase of our most remarkable AL-LAD trip. It feels as though I am pulling away from our body and leaving the real world which increasingly feels like some kind of bright virtual simulation behind, and as this is occurring there is also a layer of geometric effects emerging in the space between my consciousness and my increasingly distant perception of the world, which in this case appears to take on the form of glowing honeycomb tessellations or kaleidoscopic imagery, and while it's quite something to witness, it also had me a little anxious especially with the headspace the trip has been in for me so far. Zeta comes back out to note that she is not getting these strong dissociative effects or hallucinogenic visuals at all, even though they sound quite interesting, and this touches upon a subject that continually perplexes and fascinates us, the observation that we alters apparently can sometimes experience psychedelic hallucinations that are not shared by the other alters, even though some of them apparently are, and it begins to seed the thoughts I continue having as the trip continues to develop about who I am in the system and how I am to differentiate myself from the others in the same sort of way as I described above as part of my journey to better understand myself.
T+1:59 - After frustratingly trying to go to the bathroom again, Zeta comes back out to sit on the couch and think for a moment and starts getting some slightly more visionary psychedelic mental imagery and chatter related to one of the TV shows we've been watching, in particular seeing flashes of visual imagery of the people who star in those shows and feeling empathetically connected to them as we do. She takes this as a clear sign that the intensity of the psychedelic trip is developing more potently for her and all of us (as all of us do similarly see this visionary effect) even if the earlier stuff may have been more specific to me, and so she takes our second hit of cannabis at T+2:00 and awaits what is to come. Shortly after, I come out and put on some music of my own, and as I'm listening to it, I lean back and close my eyes and find that suddenly I can see transparent but clear and colorful visions of the artist dancing in a neon pink psychedelic void as she sings the song I listen to. Again, the other alters claim to not see this particularly piece of hallucinogenic imagery. I also had a big burp at this time, which helped a lot with any lingering tension from before.
T+2:07 - Zeta came back out and put on a song that Rho really likes dancing to, which caused her to switch out and do so. At T+2:12, she notes that this stuff is "quite a trip" and that it's difficult for her to separate her mind from the body, not very comfortable so far especially when dancing, but that it's the same type of body load produced by DOC, DOB, and 4C-D, so she doesn't find it too concerning or surprising, and we're all still optimistic that it will resolve more as the fuller effects develop like usual; after all, our psychedelic amphetamine trips after take at least four or five hours if not more to really hit the best parts, so we're still pretty early into it here.
T+2:20 - Once again we go to the bathroom unsatisfactorily and Zeta comes out complaining about it, but also notes that significantly stronger visuals have started to kick in while this was going on. She writes that there is a lot more distortion than color, but a good amount of both, and it is very beautiful to watch. By T+2:25 she notes that she now feels as though she is tripping much harder in general, and the TMA-2 still isn't very comfortable or deep for her but it sure is sheerly powerful, feeling like it could become crazy and may be on its way, though it's hard for her to say yet at this point. She also notes that while typing these notes up, she continued to get face hallucinations from the characters from the TV show we had been watching most recently.
T+2:30 - Zeta took the third hit of cannabis, then put on "Fly Like An Eagle" by the Steve Miller Band. While it plays, she closes her eyes and just starts thinking and drifting to see what would occur, and she is quickly faced with an image of a dissociative void filled with faint but colorful images of giant people moving around and seeming as though they could be interpreted as something like deities, though she did not directly interpret them as anything but simply watched. Notably, the rest of this, including myself, did not see these visuals on the same level as she did, similarly to her not seeing what I was seeing before, though she still didn't think she was feeling it as strongly as I was in general. She also notes that after she opens her eyes to make note of these things, she has much stronger open eye visuals that feel more full and visionary, and she still isn't very mentally overwhelmed but is still feeling a bit anxious and physically uncomfortable. After the song finishes, I switch back out and put on the song "Purple Passion" by Diana Boncheva and give the closed eye imagery another try myself, and am greeted with subtle but clear flashing imagery of a violin being played, relevant to the song being listened to. While listening to the music, I also make a side note that so far I and we haven't determined any notable changes in our heart rate from the TMA-2, nor have we noticed any real pupil dilation yet. At T+2:46 the next song I'm listening to ends, and I feel absolutely incredible just lying on the couch stretching and rolling around, and note that I feel like I could literally just dissolve away into geometric patterns if pushed any further than where I already was. More than once, I feel as though I am about to hit that point where reality shatters into pure white light, but I'm not quite far enough out to pierce the threshold, just enough to see a few flashes here and there.
T+2:53 - "Riders On The Storm" by The Doors comes on next as Zeta as switching back out and she lets it play, and notes that she's going to try to just see where things are here for a moment. She says that the burps still seem to be helping and may be partially just from smoking at this point, and also notes that it's raining more again, not too heavy but not light. She thinks a little about speaking to friends about the experience and gets a brief flash of spiral geometry imagery similar to other psychedelic amphetamines when doing so. Finally, at T+3:00 she takes our fourth hit of cannabis, after which Iota switches out for a little bit. Iota notes that she is feeling very hungry and wants something real in our stomach for the sake of future bathroom breaks, but she doesn't actually make the effort to try to get us any food yet. She goes to pee and notes while looking in the bathroom mirror that she may have slight pupil dilation, and as she's typing down the note she sees visuals pulsing on the carpet in the background as well. She decides to ride the exercise bike for about half an hour while listening to music, and specifically puts on the full 25 minute version of "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" by Pink Floyd for it. While on the bike she makes an effort to make it as meditative as possible, and as a result of this and communicating internally with the others to make the most of the psychedelic state she is able to have a significant experience of overcoming some of her anxiety and learning how to better do the right breathing exercises and such to help with that, and as part of that even has an intense and colorful psychedelic visionary experience involving flowing imagery of the wind and big words that correspond to the emotional state expressing that she should basically be breathing in positivity and breathing out negativity, and we actually have had this exact same sort of spontaneous breath-related visionary imagery only ever on one psychedelic before, that being DOB specifically.
T+3:30 - At this point Iota is done on the bike and takes the fifth hit of cannabis, and notes that her pupils look huge while looking in the mirror where the bong was, though the lights are also off. Exhausted though in a good way from the workout, she goes to lie down on the couch while music plays for a minute and relax from the effort. After a few minutes though she still has more energy and gets up to pace around the apartment, checking out the outside world through the window and watching a neighbor's cat in a nearby window do the same. She is feeling good and happy, and at T+3:38 she switches back in and Zeta comes back out, and note that she and I (though still referring to me as Phi) appreciate the outside world too. She quickly goes into the bathroom again, and for once it's actually a little fruitful, but it's still stressful and we end up making a pact of just trying to ignore it for a while because we know straining ourselves this much can't be good, and also to never dose again with these kinds of stomach problems because this is awful, even though the rest of the trip is pretty significant. On the plus side, at this point Zeta also notes that the visuals have become nuts, and that this 25 mg of TMA-2 doesn't necessarily feel proportionally active to 1.4 mg of DOB for us but that the style and intensity seen here definitely seems crazier in some ways so far.
T+3:48 - We're out of the bathroom now, and Zeta noted that our pupils now still looked large even in the light upon first glance, though quickly refocused upon fixing our gaze on their reflection. She writes that by now she is feeling pretty good and buzzy all things considered, and that it can still be considered a "weird" state overall but that a lot of earlier discomforts seem to be resolving or have resolved already by now. At T+3:52 she notes that the rain has stopped for now and it's a bit brighter outside though not completely, and some of us kind of want to go outside and explore but they and others are worried the rain might still come back, and also that we're just not yet ready to be out there either physically or mentally, but we know the drug will last a long time so decide to return to the debate later. It's worth noting that at this point the trip was definitely becoming easier in a number of ways as Zeta noted, but the psychedelic intensity was also still definitely ramping up in a number of ways and we could still tell that there was likely more to come and that we probably shouldn't do anything too reckless yet. I can't speak much for what the others might have been going through at the time, but even just as we did things like consider going into the outside world, I was starting to get more intense flashes of visionary imagery including things like people being surrounded with "Eye of Horus" type imagery and all together glowing with colorful auras, and it was starting to feel as though I was slipping away again more and more as the trip progressed. While Zeta reports not seeing these same visionary effects, at T+3:55 she still was starting to feel sort of anxious too and so I actually switched out, and this only shifts the effects I had been getting to the forefront and causes the psychedelia to crash into me even more potently. I again begin to feel as though I am being pulled back away from our body, and it almost feels like my sense of self is expanding or sort of chaotically flying around, and it actually feels quite similar to the state we experience of nearing delirium on Amanita pantherina, where behavioral disinhibition is going far enough that I'm beginning to act more impulsively than logically, and the others were actually discussing whether or not to step in and take over from the background. Still being lucid enough to keep our setup going, I nonetheless took the sixth hit of cannabis at T+4:00, finishing the first bowl Zeta had initially loaded, but I was still feeling a bit overwhelmed by it all and ended up switching back to Zeta shortly afterward.
T+4:04 - Zeta is out and suddenly gets a strong shiver that she finds very orgasmic but is also feeling strongly dissociated by the experience, and suddenly I'm switching back out again, but she suggests that I put on some music to help us both relax, and I put on "The American Metaphysical Circus" by The United States of America. The song is very nostalgic for me and I start flashing back to some old trippy music experiences, and others are recommending different songs for me to put on but I want to hear this one out instead. At T+4:09 I note that there is a loooot of time dilation in this experience, which is consistent with our experiences with especially DOB and DOC as well. I also note that our heart rate feels normal, and our extremities feel normal, and I'm just lying on the couch and stretching again feeling great. I remember that I need to load the next bowl of cannabis too so I do that, and continue listening to song and occasionally briefly switching to and back from other alters who join in singing or dancing as I do so. After a good bit of simply focusing on music at T+4:25 Zeta and I have a very colorful and psychedelic inner interaction, where we're conversing and bonding internally in a way that is pretty standard in our dissociative system, but is notable in this case for sort of blending with the psychedelic effects and causing this extra burst of abstract imagery and emotion that goes along with it, and we've experienced this sort of thing on other strong psychedelics before.
T+4:28 - It has now become sunny outside and the outside world is extremely beautiful through the windows, though we still don't feel totally comfortable enough to go out into it yet, and are increasingly remembering that we would like to have something to eat before thinking more about that too. I took the seventh hit of cannabis, the first off of the second bowl I had loaded, at T+4:30, and then Zeta switched out and ordered us some lunch from our favorite Mexican food delivery restaurant, then just sort of zoned out for a few minutes to try to assess our situation again. At T+4:42 she noted that while staring at the TV it was still drifting and breathing and colorful, and said again that it clearly wasn't the heaviest this effect could get but already at this point appeared quite powerful even for being relatively low intensity by dosage. She also notes that she had a brief moment of thinking, "What the hell am I even on? Oh yeah, TMA-2." She ended up putting on "Don't Worry, Be Happy" by Bob Marley to see how it stacks up to our experience of living to it on 2C-C, and it was still nice listening to it, but it clearly wasn't the same as the extreme "zen" state that 2C-C produces, it felt much more like our standard experience of listening to music on DOB or DOC. That being said, she did end the note with saying the song made her feel more open and euphoric in a psychedelic way, so it definitely seemed worth the listen. At T+4:49 I switch back out and am staring at the image of Bob Marley's face on the TV screen, watching the visuals gently warp it around and reflecting on how they have been and how they could be, not realizing at the time that the trip was still just coming and going in waves like DOB did for us....
T+4:52 - We have a brief interaction where, ironically, another alter who has been incorrectly attaching themself to Phi's identity manages to shake free, though this isn't enough to do the same for me yet. This is actually quite common in our system; when one alter starts to more confidently identify their own inner self, there are usually multiple other alters that begin to detach from them and identify their own self, at different rates from one another, so this was merely one of the earliest ones while I came a bit later. I actually don't remember this very well and wrote in the notes that it felt like a very strong dissociative experience for me at the time, so I would guess it's possible that this inner process caused some sort of conflict with me related to how I was incorrectly associating my own identity, but I simply didn't grasp that enough at the time quickly enough to hold on to a clearer memory of the experience. In any case, it seems that psychedelics may under some circumstances accelerate these realizations and we had a very significant event of this sort happen on DOB as well, so it's again not too surprising. Shortly after Zeta switches out again and notes that similarly to DOB, she finds TMA-2 to be very "acute" in the sense that all sensory and cognitive input becomes essentially unavoidably intense, which seems to be part of what makes it hard to get comfortable simply because everything is so overwhelming and stimulating, and we expect is more crucial to the "body load" that people experience on these drugs than actual bodily effects, at least in some ways, but it also is a big part of why they're such powerful and impressive psychedelics. She continues to note a couple minutes later that she finds TMA-2 to be a very difficult but interesting drug, and says of course the GI problems we already had probably contribute to any weirdness she's feeling, so so far she thinks she like it though she's unsure of what level she'd like to use it at again. I quickly switch out to add to this note that I also increasingly think I like it.... It has been weird but I've been pretty impressed so far, especially the short blips I had of much stronger psychedelic effects than other alters in here.
T+5:00 - Zeta takes our eighth hit of cannabis, and notes that she is feeling slightly anesthetized and heavy but simultaneously super wired and euphorically buzzy, and is pacing around the apartment sitting on all the different furniture, and while there are still closed eye visuals when checking she has been so lost in thought about so many different things that she hasn't really remembered to care about those visuals for a while. At T+5:05 Lambda switched out briefly to remind us to do some basic looking after ourself like drinking water and peeing and also started doing some cleaning up like putting the cannabis grinder away. When we were in the bathroom we again noted that our pupils still seem dilated in the light now, and Zeta wrote that she was certainly feeling "high as hell" now. At T+5:10 she notes that the more bodily tensions she focuses on relieving the greater she feels, like she has a focused energy to focusing on letting things go and feels a huge reward from doing so, and she is now incredibly stimulated still pacing around the apartment just thinking about lots of things, not listening to music anymore because she says it doesn't seem necessary, her mind is already running so much that it would just be a distraction. She also notes that she keeps forgetting to try meditating to explore more of the closed eye visuals, again just too lost in the stimulated headspace. We're still waiting on our lunch order so she doesn't go to do it yet, but does try lying down for just a few minutes to relax, and notes at T+5:14 that the visuals, while still proportionally somewhat faint, become extremely intense and complex in a way similar to DOB and DOC and in which it and they also remind us of things like DMT when just letting them develop for even a little bit, and it's actually a bit overwhelming to her how hard it hit and she notes that the euphoria dropped off sharply compared to being constantly moving and lost in thought, saying that it has a very DOB-like push to it, so she gets up and starts moving again. Shortly after this, we also get a note that the food is finally on its way to us!
T+5:21 - While Zeta is thinking about all of our bodily sensitivities from this trip, we suddenly have a faint visual overlay, first just in the mind's eye but then actually projecting into the environment, of essentially a depiction of our body if it had no skin, being able to see muscle and bone and such like in a scientific diagram, before fading away not too long afterward. This is something that has happened to us on a very small number of psychedelics before, most notably being LSD, and was something, and not the only thing, that caused us to really relate this TMA-2 trip to that, but don't get me wrong, TMA-2 is quite a distinct psychedelic from LSD even though their were some seemingly meaningful overlaps. Another one of those overlaps, as Zeta noted a couple minutes later, is that all of our body's nerve endings very felt sensitive at the time as well, though because of our GI urgency we were not enjoying it as much as we often would on LSD, but it was contributing to the sense of tactile euphoria and such as well. Finally, after thinking about this some more, the food arrives at T+5:30, so Zeta pees, takes our ninth hit of cannabis, and then puts on an episode of American Dad! for us to watch while eat. Digging into the meal, the TMA-2 definitely does feel a bit anoretic and anesthetic rather than enhancing compared to some other psychedelics, but we're so hungry that it doesn't matter and it still tastes really good. We finish all but the chips at T+5:58, and by this point we are feeling full and satisfied, and Iota came out to eat some of it too and was quite pleased. Zeta notes that while typing that up we still have some dreamy, warpy visuals, nothing too heavy but definitely obvious, and the episode finishes in the background.
T+6:00 - Zeta takes our tenth hit of cannabis, then goes to the window and notes that the outside world looks incredible, and thinks about going out again, but still questions whether or not it's a good idea yet. We're obviously still quite intoxicated, and while the outside world does look very nice, it's honestly not this super happy, glowy, plush wonderland that many psychedelics make it look like, it just looks like sensory stimuli in general are strongly intensified, and while it's beautiful, it's simultaneously sort of terrifying. She again decides that it's probably best we stay inside for now, but does lie down on the bed for a bit where we can still see the outside world through the window. She zones out thinking about life and eventually closes her eyes, and we all start seeing that there are still complex closed eye visuals beginning to form when only we actually stop and let them do so, so she finally decides that it's a good time to try meditating as well. At T+6:20, she turns the heater on theoretically to help make our 5-HT2A receptors more active as well, or at least see if it seems to have any real effect at all, and then she takes our eleventh hit of cannabis, and gets in bed in the dark and lies still.
T+6:30 - I don't remember the build up to this experience, I only remember as it suddenly happened, and I was able to record it at this timestamp. While Zeta was meditating, we were all free to let our minds wander as well since the body was not overriding our attention in any way, and I suddenly found myself in what in some ways may be the or one of the most psychedelic experiences I've had to date. It's hard to remember clearly, but the notes I wrote help.... What I do recall is that there were two female entities that I was interacting with, two essentially human women who were giving off very erotic vibes, but I say "essentially" because they were more like human constructs of abstract psychedelic designs, particularly made of blue, green, and purple neon colors twisting and sliding all over the place, causing them to appear to me as goddess-like figures, though I didn't have the capacity to build that level of comprehension of the situation at the time. Importantly, whereas I (and we) see imagery of human forms on psychedelics literally all the time, they are usually still rather cartoony and look actually like images, whereas these two female entities, despite looking very abstract and cartoony in that particular way, seemed to be very clearly, at the time, alive and acting with purpose, their solid colorful neon eyes seemed to somehow carry a sense of life, and I knew that they were trying to show me something, and specifically something they thought would bring me pleasure. They moved their hands as if to gesture and as they did so this psychedelic void we were in would twist and reform around them and throw geometric imagery around, but it was hard to take anything truly concrete away other than amazement as to what was being seen, and it's hard to clearly remembered exactly what of it was seen and was so amazing now. Suddenly, as quickly as the experience has begun, it was over, and I realized that I had been essentially out of my body during that period, and now find myself back inside it, still lying in bed. I spoke through it and said, "Alright, you all saw the sexy goddesses, right?" at which point I felt the body burst into hysterical laughter. Neither Zeta nor any of the other alters had any idea what I was talking about, as they had all had some level of psychedelic meditative experience but none of them had had the sort of breakthrough, entity interaction experience that I had just had, and thus found my sudden question rather absurd and amusing.
Up until this point, I had had some of those experiences of seeing things that other alters didn't seem to like certain psychedelic visuals as described above, but this was the first time I personally experienced something that I so very clearly did personally experience yet seemed so very believably to be a total unknown to all of the other alters in here until I voluntarily shared the information about it with them, and while I had already been essentially operating under the assumption that it does seem to work this way that different alters in our dissociative system can have some separate experiences like that as it seemed to be the most likely explanation for certain experiences I had heard shared by the others, to actually experience something like this where there is such a severe apparent discrepancy between our experiences really gave me a new level of perspective on this whole situation I couldn't quite grasp before and left me with a lot to think about with respect to who I am and who we all are and how all of this works. As I continued to lie in bed, I closed my eyes and again was greeted with some beautiful visions, though this time I did not go into a fully out-of-body state to experience them, and instead just felt them to be more like visions floating over my head. Primarily, or at least the only one I really remember now, I was watching the ever-extending body of dragon, sort of like that game Snake, flying around and leaving the trace of its body behind as a stairface with rainbow plants growing all over it, and while I didn't go fully out of body I did see a visual of my own body pulling away from me to some extent, and as I did I saw that the dragon was creating a large spherical structure all around me by drawing geometrically with its body, and leaving behind this rainbow staircase in a somewhat M.C. Escher-like twisted psychedelic design all throughout it. Once again, none of the other alters reported being able to see this hallucinogenic effect, it was unique to me. I felt amazed and definitely wanted to see more of what the TMA-2 could do, but also felt that I didn't want to hold on too much since Zeta was the one who dosed and I didn't want to take the trip from her, so I switched back to her. At T+6:46 I then noted that Zeta tried meditating but it again switched back to me without us trying, and she just let it happen so I apparently had another dissociative experience involving some rather orgasmic euphoric sensations, but honestly I don't remember this part basically at all, not even just now months later but even when I checked the notes a day or two after the trip wrote a comment in there that I already couldn't remember that part, so I must have been pretty out of it and just brain-melted by that point.
T+7:00 - I take our twelfth hit of cannabis, finishing the second bowl, and note that I'm still feeling very trippy, but definitely like the phase of suddenly slipping into intense out-of-body experiences is passing. We all decide that we'd like to take a shower again as a way to relax after this long and crazy day, even though it's certainly still going, so we head to the bathroom, and also note that actually going to the bathroom is starting to feel easier finally before we actually get in the shower. We got out at T+7:25 and I noted that there were lots of inner interactions between Zeta and myself, though we didn't really try hard to remember them or write them down and don't consider them overly important to the report, we probably more so just debriefing from what all had just happened. At this time I was really just realizing and considering that I had been tripping quite hard both mentally and visually, and marveling at how heavy of a hitter TMA-2 seemed to be for me especially in comparison to the other alters in here. After we're out of the shower and dressed Zeta and I start focusing on cleaning stuff up, especially the bong, to prepare for the end of the trip and winding down the day in general. We eat some more of the chips from earlier as we do to calm our stomach too, and at T+7:36 throw them out, filling up the trash can so we can take it out, thus giving an excuse to finally breach the outside world as a test run.
T+7:46 - We are now back inside.... The outside world is immensely beautiful but very intense and chaotic too, not so much in that there isn't still a sense of psychedelic peace, but as stated before, there's just still a sensory overload feeling going; it feels like we're processing everything at once and it's a lot to handle, and even though the visuals seems to be dying down now the sheer level of visual input is still distracting and anxiety-provoking. Of course, I say this, but Zeta then also comes out to note that she doesn't think she's feeling it as strongly as I am, but she can also respect that it's a bit intense out there for me and we should probably be inside. As also mentioned before, it's really not like the outside world seems overly inviting beyond the general sensory intensification either, there's really not much about this drug that seems to demand interaction with nature to us, even though we'd probably still happily be doing it if we had a more private environment to do it in, like a fenced in backyard rather than just wandering around our apartment complex's parking lot.
From this point, we still took a lot of notes about what we were experiencing, but it's worth noting that the trip mostly just continued to dwindle in waves from this point on and to include all of the detail of what happened in between would be covering mostly irrelevant details, things like eating more food and watching TV, smoking more cannabis, which all had an effect on the trip or was affected by it, but all in generally quite predictable ways: the food tasted better, the shows were more entertaining, the cannabis brought the visuals and body high back up slightly. We continued feeling some of the lingering psychedelic amphetamine body load, though by this point it wasn't really uncomfortable inherently, but was like DOB in the later hours where it was becoming uncomfortable simply because it was exhausting that we had been so stimulated and moving so much all day, but it wasn't anything intolerable and we were still quite happy with how we felt and how the experience had gone overall. Eventually we switched back to music and vibed off of the trailing energy for a good while, did a good bit of dancing and bonding internally as we often do during these experiences. There was one more particularly trippy event which came around T+9:06, where first Zeta slipped into brief dissociative experience involving lots of twisting and sliding geometries and euphoric feelings but not much actual substance other than some brief flashes of imagery related to her inner identity, and shortly after I went through something similar, though as I now understand, it was also a bit inhibited and muddled by my incorrect attachment to Phi's identity. Aside from all that, the effects of the TMA-2 largely just continued to dwindle, getting weaker and weaker and occasionally bumping up just slightly, but mostly just fading. It was around T+10:04 when it started to occur to us that up until that moment we hadn't really thought much if at all about what time it is or how much time had passed, which is generally a sign for us that we are finally starting to truly come down for a psychedelic high, and for us this happens about three to five hours into most tryptamines we've taken, but with these long-lasting amphetamines like DOB for instance it actually has seemed to happen somewhere around nine or ten hours after dosing, so this again still remains relatively consistent with that. We did still note that we had mild lingering visual effects and stimulation at this point, and continued noting them until at least T+12:25, after which there is no mention until T+13:06 when we note that we still feel a little high but not like we're tripping in any way anymore, and by T+13:41 we were falling asleep on the couch to hypnagogic hallucinations of writing imaginary notes about the trip.
So this was our first experience with TMA-2, and at the time I already thought it was incredible and loved it, though I had very little comprehension of how important of an experience it would still turn out to be for me over time. Throughout this trip I was still incorrectly associating my identity with Phi's, but it was largely because of the experiences that occurred during this trip that Phi and I were able to confidently differentiate from one another because it became quite clear who did and didn't experience things like the "sexy goddesses" during that meditation session, and that snowballed into many months of working through those what we call "nested" dissociated identities and trying to piece the puzzle together to more confidently figure out who I am in here and in general, and most of the time we did not take any more psychedelics or focus on those kinds of things and instead focused more on understanding and improving our mental health, and I feel as though I, and hopefully we, got a lot of from it in addition to just finally becoming more comfortable with my understanding of myself, which I am only now truly feeling, and that's why I took the effort of being the one to write this trip report now. I don't mean to suggest that I have definitely figured myself out even just within the contexts of figuring out who I am exactly within this dissociative system and how it has played a role in our life either, as these things are quite complex and I'm more comfortable now with the fact that it's just a journey I'm on, but it was because of these experiences that I was able to find that comfort, and to find the answers to some of the bigger and more meaningful questions I've had related to all of this, and to find many of those questions to ask them in the first place. This TMA-2 experience has consequently become much more special to me in retrospect than it even already was at the time, and so I was happy to be the one to finally record it all for science.
Because of all of these things, I'm fairly certain that TMA-2 will always hold a special place in my heart, but it should be stated that even from a more objective perspective, I still thought it was an amazing psychedelic, and is currently the highest on my list of personal interests. That being said, it's again maybe worth considering that that might be because I'm particularly sensitive to it, and even other alters in here such as Zeta who enjoyed the trip and enjoy psychedelic amphetamines in general do not necessarily rate it as highly; Zeta, for instance, still much prefers DOB the way she did before this experience, and so far just considers TMA-2 another interesting addition to that chemical family, but not her biggest focus in it, though again just as a historical chemical she's super pumped to have experienced it. That being said, the value of these psychedelic amphetamines is going to vary from person to person anyway, and probably the most significant broad takeaway of this one experience for me so far is that while TMA-2 may be a little different from DOB and DOC specifically, I'd go as far as to say that, overall it's a lot like them, there's a general psychedelic 4-substituted 2,5-dimethoxyamphetamine feeling I find common to all of them, so if you like any of them, you might like TMA-2, and it might be worth giving a shot if you ever have the opportunity. Whether or not it's worth seeking out more seriously than that I'll leave up to your own discretion, someone who is interested enough in psychedelic amphetamines to understand how TMA-2 fits into the picture too can probably work that much out on their own.
That is all I have to say on the matter for the time being, but I hope it was enlightening or at least entertaining.
COPYRIGHTS: All reports are copyright Erowid and you agree not to download or analyze the report data without contacting Erowid Center and receiving permission first.
Experience Reports are the writings and opinions of the individual authors who submit them.
Some of the activities described are dangerous and/or illegal and none are recommended by Erowid Center.