Citation: Kaleida. "Finding the Complexities: An Experience with 4-HO-EPT, Nitrous Oxide & Cannabis (exp109341)". Erowid.org. Feb 17, 2017. erowid.org/exp/109341
||(powder / crystals)
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This was my second experience with 4-HO-EPT. My most recent trip was my first experience on it, with 25 mg, which took place twelve days before this. I had originally intended to try another few molecules out for the first time before making my way back to this one, but I couldn't help myself but be curious after my first trip on it was so satisfying but also overall felt like just a taste. So, I decided to bump my dose up a bit, hoping that the lack of physical side effects from the lower dose would remain true, and go with 40 mg.
I will say first of all that I had made a conscious decision to treat this trip differently from my previous one as well. At that time I had been very analytical of the whole thing, searching for every sign of any effect, to makes notes of it for the trip report, just to try to collect data on this novel substance. I still had managed to very much enjoy that experience as well, but as a result of that I decided that this time I would rather just focus on going into the experience itself, though I did take a few notes. Just for that reason, this report will be a little bit more traditional than my previous one.
My previous experience with psychedelics includes DMT, MiPT, DiPT, DALT, Psilocybe cubensis, 4-HO-MET, 4-HO-DET, 4-HO-MPT, 4-HO-EPT, 4-HO-DPT, 4-HO-MiPT, 4-HO-DiPT, 4-AcO-DMT, 4-AcO-MET, 4-AcO-DET, 4-AcO-DALT, 5-HO-DMT, 5-MeO-MiPT, 5-MeO-DALT, Ipomoea tricolor, Argyreia nervosa, LSD, ETH-LAD, 2C-B, 2C-I, DOC, and MDMA.
T+0:00 - I got up in the morning, prepared some things, and washed 40 mg of 4-HO-EPT down with some water and cookies. The taste was still bad, but notably not as bad as the first time.
T+0:57 - The come up has been significantly more intense than my 25 mg dose, though it's still not really an in-your-face kind of trip. There is definitely a good deal of stimulation, my body is shaking a bit and my thoughts are jumping all over the place. It's lucid, but scattered. TV characters having all kinds of random conversations through my inner monologue (in a controlled but loose kind of way) seems to be the most common. Some visual effects have also started to develop, though they are largely colorless; the two most noticeable for me were a sort of feeling of my vision flattening out and pushing towards me, and causing things to rock and wave a bit, and that textures seemed to be sliding around and swapping places with each other such as on the window curtains. There was also a bit of nausea that started kicking in pretty early on, but it passed and never returned after a good burp some time around T+0:45.
T+1:00 - The mindset started calming down a bit at this point, so I smoked some cannabis. I closed my eyes hoping to get lost in the colorful visions as I had the first time, but I noticed that things didn't quite pick up as quickly this time, as they often don't on my second time with a new chemical compared to the first time. I decided to do a small balloon of nitrous oxide while beginning to meditate to help get myself into the right state of mind, and what I found again was actually the same trip I had been confronted with the first time I did this: it was a sudden, vivid hallucination of my own face, and shortly thereafter the rest of me as well. The first time this was a bit more surprising and it caught me off guard with a bit of a negative head trip, but this time I just laughed it off and felt content that I had overcome my past insecurities, and this time the hallucinations then changed to be like the visuals I had initially been expecting, but even more developed than last time.
T+1:21 - This is the kind of experience I have heard about people having with DPT and 4-HO-DPT, but I've not yet had it with them myself. It reminds me a lot though of how I read that EPT lacks the dark corners of DPT, as this also feels much less 'dark' than most tryptamines that give me this kind of trip do. However, the extreme intensity and hedonism that I have heard about with those, with some people claiming that it feels even deeper in that way than LSD can be, was entirely there. The visual effects behind closed eyes consisted almost entirely of beautiful, highly detailed women, usually naked, making all sorts of emotional expressions at me, or doing things like reaching out to me. These sorts of things on paper sound not unlike things I have experienced with tryptamines before, but they really did evolve to such a point that was far beyond where any other chemical has yet taken me.... There were points where I was seeing massive geometric patterns comprised entirely of those same totally lifelike and lifesized naked women all arranged in designs like intricate flower petals, and there were fewer more elementary geometric visuals by comparison but they were definitely present, especially on my mental image of my own body, and they were quite beautiful as well, consisting particularly of dark purples, blues, reds, and yellows. During this whole time I also feel completely calm and collected other than my excitement by the hallucinogenic intensity, and I feel no physical side effects at all other than some sweating. At this point I was really starting to feel certain that I had discovered another close ally of mine.
T+1:37 - I opened my eyes and sat up to put some music on my phone and get my headphones on, and then I went back into the closed eye realm. Intriguingly, just as had happened in my previous trip, it now seemed like the strong visual effects from before were no longer accessible, and now my field of vision was simply being bathed in white light once more. This did not stop me from having a great time listening to the music though, and I also found it to be much more enhanced even than I had with the previous dose. It was extremely easy to empathize with the artists and feel their emotions in a way that reminded me of first really connecting with music in my childhood and adolescence, but it was even further enhanced because I was able to project my mind's eye image of that empathy into the white void around me. I personally very much enjoyed this part, it was satisfying in a way that I have not felt with psychedelics in a good while, and it sure was nice to have that feeling back.
T+1:58 - I decided to go in for a full balloon of nitrous oxide with eight chargers in it while listening to music through my headphones on full blast, just to push it to the limit. And that I did.... The mindfuck at this point became extreme. I began to experience various facets of my personality overblown and isolated from other parts of my consciousness, reduced in such a way that I could tell what they were but in retrospect their logic was faulty or related to odd geometric structures, and not all of them were entirely positive. There was a similar feeling as to my first full balloon with my previous 4-HO-EPT experience, where there was a bit of anxiety to everything that was going on despite the fact that it would all resolve positively in the end, and I did start laughing quite a lot and had a very euphoric comedown once I got through this balloon as well. It was definitely very deep though, and I feel like it has affected me in some ways that are going to take too long to unfold themselves for me to cover in this report,
I definitely feel as though I've received some important insight into my substance usage patterns and where I feel I am and how I'm doing in life at the moment... though there was still a very easy and recreational aspect to all of this as well, as there were also still some pretty sexual visuals caused by the stimulating music I was listening to flashing by in the background, though they are hard to recall now after the fact. In that comedown where I was the most euphoric I was also able to push it pretty far with the lingering dissociation, I remember some very strange and ineffable out-of-body-type phenomena starting to happen at the end there, weird sacred geometry kind of things....
T+2:08 - The major hallucinations seem to be pretty much over at this point, but I'm still feeling good minus a bit of a headache as I usually get from cannabis and psychedelics. I did feel a little bit of anxiety when I got up and moved around a bit though, which was not unlike what had happened around this point on my previous experience. Over the next fifteen minutes or so I also went through a bit of a back and forth between feeling stimulated or sedated, but ultimately I ended up just lying on my bed in silence. It's odd because from the outside it could almost seem like there was nothing happening at this point to make it psychedelic, no real visuals or thought distortions, but it was definitely still a very mental experience overall, and that silence was mostly to allow my thoughts to just keep on rolling rather than be distracted by annoying perceptions. There was a lot of self-reflection that was going on at this point particularly, it reminded me a lot of mushrooms in the way that I was sort of forced to re-evaluate a lot of my more recent life decisions.
T+2:30 - I ate a bowl of cereal, which was pretty delicious. While looking around I also noticed that there are still a few warping and waving visuals present on surfaces, but nothing really powerful or colorful. The open eye visuals still never really become too strong, though they were pretty interesting closer to the peak. I was starting to feel a bit more good and comfortable at this point too, and I was starting to think a lot about how this trip seems to work for me in different stages....
T+3:16 - I'm still feeling euphoric but I'm a bit more physically relaxed now, but still mentally stimulated to some degree. I'm also surprisingly hungry, but that might just be the good cannabis I've been smoking and the lack of eating much earlier in the day. I decided to have a sandwich delivered to my house and watch some Netflix in the meantime.
T+3:53 - I started eating the food at this point, and it was absolutely delicious, definitely enhanced from normal. I was still slightly euphoric too, but not by a huge amount.
T+4:20 - I finished eating and watching a new South Park episode, and I was just feeling incredibly satisfied. I loaded another bowl of cannabis at this point to stretch it out, which it did so successfully; I continued feeling a lot more euphoria than I would have from smoking normally, though I think the main effects of the 4-HO-EPT were pretty much over by this point. The smoking also made my headache worse, so when I finished the bowl I did one more small balloon of nitrous to try to make the pain go away, which it did to some extent, as well as increasing the high a bit overall.
T+5:15 - This is when I started writing the trip report, and was the point when I was starting to feel mostly just high.
So, that appears to be about the end of my second experience with 4-HO-EPT. I must say that I am just growing ever more intrigued by what it is capable of, and I definitely intend to explore it much further as well. I will try to keep this final commentary more brief than what I had on my previous report, but I would like to make a couple observations on the whole thing.
First of all, as I have mentioned already, I've become quite fixated on the fact that both of my trips on 4-HO-EPT so far seem to have followed an interested pattern of shifting between different stages of effect. All psychedelics do this to some extent, but some definitely more than others, and so far 4-HO-EPT seems to be one of those more complex molecules for me. The pattern I have noticed starts with the come up that begins in a very dissociated sort of way, which at the lower dose felt mostly dreamy but at the higher dose involved hints of quite a bit of mental disorientation and stimulation, there was some real potential there, and this seems to go until maybe around an hour in, or a bit beyond it.
There also seems to be a slight building of closed eye visuals during this stage. Then, after that all clears up and it feels a bit more lucid, the meditative visual stage starts to kick in, and this is where I have been able to get myself to the point of extremely beautiful and complex visuals and imagery with both doses, but notably, both times that realm also completely closed itself off after my first time opening my eyes and then closing them again; it appears, at least for me and at these doses so far, this initial hallucinogenic intensity may be a one shot per trip kind of deal. Then, after this passes, the trip instead appears to have mostly white light as closed eye visuals, and already almost none with eyes open by then, but music and relaxing are excellent at this point, and this is when the imagination enhancement and projection and some of the emotional effects seem to dominate. However, there also seems to be some anxiety for me at this point if I try to move around much or do anything other than just relax and enjoy music. Finally, roughly two hours in there seems to begin a shift away from any visuals at all, including the white light, but towards a more euphoric and energetic state, though still very heavy and relaxed as well, and at this point it becomes easy to interact with the world and enjoy calm reflection or things like a laid back TV show. This feeling then begins to fade out over the next two or three hours, and a bit longer with cannabis stretching it out.
The second observation I would like to make is that even though I'm sure this trip sounds quite intense in some ways and it indeed was, the hallucinations, no matter how solid and detailed and overwhelming they were, were just never that vivid or vibrant, they really had to be milked out, and for this reason I have started to suspect that a faster route of administration as is often used for 4-HO-DPT, like insufflation for instance, may be required for some at least to achieve a more intense version of these effects with this chemical as well. I do think that this makes it a very interesting and potentially versatile molecule however, as unlike 4-HO-DPT it can definitely still be taken at doses comparable to other 4-substituted tryptamines for a very smooth, satisfying, and undeniably psychedelic effect, but I really do suspect that something like insufflation or vaporization may just produce a much deeper experience overall too. For this reason I think that my next attempt with it is going to be with one of these routes of administration instead to compare and contrast, and I am also quite curious as to what effect that change may have on the different stages of effect that I noted above as well.
There are more thoughts going around in my head about this whole experience right now too, but I think those should suffice for now, and I will have plenty of opportunity to answer my questions with future experiences. In the end I will just say that I am very much still enjoying the effects of 4-HO-EPT, and I am very excited to see what more it will be able to do for me in the future. But, until then!
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