Citation: Mezza. "The 'Magic' Never Seems to Fade: An Experience with 4-Fluoroamphetamine, Mushrooms, bk-MDMA, Nitrous Oxide & Supplements (exp109155)". Erowid.org. Aug 19, 2017. erowid.org/exp/109155
5-HTP/Vitamin B12/Piracetam/75mg 4-FA/2g Mushrooms/200mg bk-MDMA/MJ & Nitrous Oxide
Vitamin B12/Rhodiola Rosea/5-HTP
Mushrooms + bk-MDMA have proven time and time again to be a very worthwhile experience. Recently, combining these compounds with the nootropic Piracetam has added a very tangible positive 'sheen' across the entire ride. Smoother come up/come down. Longer lasting peak, and noticeably less negative side effects have always accompanied the experience when Piracetam is added. Thus, it has become a staple.
4-FA is known as an empathogenic amphetamine. Up until this point, explored only at a very low dose (50mg). It provides a long lasting (6-8hr) pleasant stimulation reminiscient of adderall. But, where adderall has this 'laser focus get shit done' quality, 4-FA has a subtle empathy and euphoria. There are several reports online where 4FA combined with Piracetam and bk-MDMA yields an experience greater than the sum of its parts. Care must always be exercised when combining research stimulants, however. With this experience, the doses of each are well below what is considered to be an 'average' dose.
Extreme care must be taken when combining anything that goes into your body, and it must be stressed that before 4FA was added to this mix even at a low dose, Mushrooms + bk-MDMA had been explored many times over several years and the effects of several dose ranges and their effects were well known to these experimenters.
50mg 4FA/ 1.5g Mushrooms / 150mg bk-MDMA w/50mg booster was tried 3-4 weeks before with fantastic effects. However, Subject 2 became nauseaus toward the end of the experience and threw up. This was alarming, as Subject 1 suffered no ill effects whatsoever. This was in the back of both their minds, at the onset of this experience.
2PM 500mg Piracetam/100mg 5-HTP preload
6pm 100mg 5-HTP preload
9:30PM 75mg 4-FA + 2g Piracetam
Subject 2 arrives home from work we dose 75mg 4-FA around 9:30. Knowing its somewhat long duration, we wanted to get that started asap. Previously, 50mg was used in the same combination with 2g of Piracetam taken an hour before. This time, the 2g Piracetam was taken shortly after the 4-FA. In my experience, it's best to let the Piracetam 'kick in' before dosing the actual compound or a subtle 'unsettling' vibe can permeate one's consciousness until things level out. On the come up of an 18mg 2CI experience some time ago, this 'unsettling' vibe was downright scary - which leveled out into a beautiful experience. On this low dose of 4-FA, it was noted but not bothersome. Note to readers: Take your Piracetam an hour before the inital dose of 4-FA.
Myself and Subject 2 decide to stroll around the neighboorhood and have a delightful time chatting and looking at things. The 4-FA has a warm, very pleasant, almost electric like stimulation with a subtle empathy and euphora. It's described as 'MDMA-lite' in several reports and I can see that, although at this low dosage the empathogenic effects are very mild. Colors, lights, and sounds are enhanced, I feel happy. The night air feels amazing.
S2 and I return home, smoke a bit and sit around talking about life and the universe in general. It's a good time all around...we both remark how we like 75mg more than 50mg and are both not feeling any ill-effects. S2 remarks his balance is off a bit. We both agree that 4FA by itself would make for a mild and fun evening, and then decide it is time to step this evening up a notch.
11:00pm 500mg Piracetam
12:00am 2g Mushrooms
2g of quite potent P.cubensis mushrooms are capped up and promptly taken by myself and S2. The 'come up' of mushrooms while 2hrs into a 4-FA experience is *completely* different than without. Rather than 1st alerts and waves, the psilocybin just flows in and permeates everything. Building and building until you are enveloped in a trip wrapped in a glimmering sheen of tactile enhancement and empathetic overtones. Tonight is much, much stronger than the previous experience. Both S2 and I note how the room is both perceptually and visually expanding, and decide to go outside.
We're standing on the front porch, and I look at the row of hedges. I'm hit with visuals like that which I've never seen...the entire mass of plants looks alive. Writhing, pulsing, I stand there in astonishment with my mind utterly blown.
'Do you see that?' I ask S2.
'Yep.' He replies, standing next to me in awe.
We continue to explore the outdoors, walking around in the back field a bit and standing under the big willow tree. Everything is amazing.
1:00 am 500mg piracetam/100mg 5-HTP
1:30 am 200mg bk-MDMA
After a couple hours we are well into the effects of the mushrooms and have centered ourselves a bit. We decide to try a hit of NO2 on just the 4-FA and Mushrooms, before adding anything else. To me, it's an rocket ride up in disassocated space. The lights and tapestries in S2's room melt and flow into a surreal, beautiful scene. However, mentally, I am still relatively clear. About the state I would be at on 2g of mushrooms. Not too far out, but certainly deep enough to provide for enhanced thought and introspection.
S2, on the other hand, exclaims that he hit complete ego-loss. Excited and shaken, we talk about his experience for a bit and decide to head over to my place and drop the bk-MDMA. On the stroll back over, we stand around outside talking. I feel the methylone making its way in, a massive, euphoric rush cascading over the epic trip that we're already on. It's incredible. We decide to grab some chairs off the front porch, the short walk there engrossed in a psychedelic blur. We make it back to the patio, sit our asses down...and the entire back field became an ocean. The visual impact was astonishing.
At this point the bk-MDMA is starting to peak and the experience could be summed up as one of the strongest trips combined with the strongest rolls I've ever had. Not even flipping, just everything at once in all its glory. It's absolutely unreal. I ask S2 how he's doing.
'Fan-fucking-tastic' he exclaims. We laugh (everything is at once amazing and hilarious) and decide to head into his bedroom for some tunes and roll-style chillaxing.
We spend the next hour talking about all manner of things, and looking at a scrap book of S2's childhood that his Mom made. I'd never seen it, and I'm overcome with a cuteness overload that almost brings me to tears. I think at once point I remarked that I felt as if I were covered in kittens. The mushrooms flow in and out of the experience gracefully, bringing with them an organic richness to the chemically induced euphoria that completes the experience in a way that neither of us had ever felt. NO2 and MJ flow freely but moderately, the strength of the trip itself carrying us to greater and greater heights. S2 remarked at one point that it felt like he wasn't fully returning from the NO2 trip...I asked him if he felt if that was a good or bad thing (remember his nausea from weeks before). He said a good thing. I did notice how S2 seemed more 'out of it' than I throughout the night up until this point, at the time I chalked this up to his previous ego-loss, which can certainly leave a lasting impact on the psyche, especially in this state.
S2 remarks he has to take a leak and leaves the room. Suddenly, hear him retching and I jump up. He's huddled over the toilet puking.
I can't really describe what it feels like to go from blazing across the universe with your best friend to a dead stop terrified that his life is in danger. +++ back to baseline in a heartbeat. It's something that, as an explorer and researcher of psychedelic states I try *really* hard to not have happen. At times, the body does not always agree with what you're doing, however.
I get S2 a glass of water and help him up. He assures me he's OK, and I assure him I will continue to freak the fuck out until I'm convinced. And, that I may get annoying asking him if he's OK. He laughs and says he's OK.
S2 says he thinks it may be that he needs to eat, and then mentions he'd taken Adderall earlier in the day. 'did you last time too?' I ask. He thinks for a bit 'yeah, I did now that you mention it'. A bell goes off in my head - drug interactions. I'd read in a report on bluelight that dextroamphetamine and 4FA probably shouldnt be taken in the same day. If this is the case, S2 had taken it much earlier in the day and it settled me down a bit. I'd also had a full 12 hrs of sleep the night before, S2 had hardly slept at all.
I've taken Adderall and missed a meal before - it's not comfortable. S2 says he feels like he needs Carbohydrates. We head back over to my kitchen on a mission to get him fed and feeling better. I make him some whey protein and some fruit, and we take the time to check our blood pressure and pulse.
Elevated, but within a normal range for the kind of night we're having. S2 is 135/102 with a pulse of 105. I am 135/95 with a pulse of 95. I am normally 125/70 with a pulse of <60. Considering what we're on and the stress of thinking something is wrong - these aren't bad numbers at all.
That calms me down a bit. We grab a frozen pizza out of the fridge and head back over to S2's pad. He assures me he's fine, and to not let his experience slow down my evening. I'm like 'yeah OK dude, let's make the pizza'.
S2 sets the alarm on his phone so we don't forget the oven and we head back into his room and turn on the tunes. He remarks he's feeling better - we smoke some good herb and start to calm down. The pizza finishes up, and S2 wolfs it down. He remarks that he can actually feel his body coming back online and becoming re-energized. We both make note that next time - and both agree this experience is too awesome for there not to be another trial - he must make sure that there are no other drugs in his system and he is well fed and rested.
With the evening starting to wane, I start thinking of ways to 'blow things back up' as it were.
Dude - you got a vicks inhaler? S2 is laying back on his bed and points to his closet. I find the little gem of a trip tool and it does exactly what it's supposed to do - sends us to the moon. :)
S2 hits that and a rip of NO2, lays back with a smile.
'How are you doing, man?' I ask, still trepedatious that things may go awry.
'Fan-fucking-tastic!' S2 exclaims with a laugh, and at that point I'm convinced we're going to ride out of this one proper.
It's about 4am now, and we spend the next 2 hours just listening to tunes and chatting. The come down on this experience is as graceful as the entry. By 6am, it's time to call it quits and I head back to my place to catch some sleep.
I wake up at 930 am, knowing I promised to help a friend move at noon. Surprisingly, I feel way more 'fine' than I think I should, considering the gravity of the experience. I get up, drink 50g of whey protein and take my combo of Vitamin B12, Rhodiola, and 5-HTP. Essential for getting back in action quickly after experiencing any sort of serotonin releasing compound.
Back to sleep for 2 more hours, wake up at 11:30 and txt my friend I'm on my way. I swing over to S2's house to check in on him. I woke the poor kid up, but I wasn't going to leave without knowing full well he was a-OK.
S2 is just fine, asks if I want help with the move and I tell him to rest, considering his rough ride the night before.
For the next 3-4 hours, I'm running up and down 6 flights of stairs moving furniture and while I'm certainly not at 100%, I've got way more energy and am in a way better mood than I've ever been following an adventure of this magnitude.
Head back home around 4, take another dose of my 'recovery stack' and head back to sleep. Sleep like a rock until 9, and then S2 and I head to a local dive to get some real post trip recovery food: chicken wings and sandwiches. A good black and tan takes the edge off the pleasant afterglow, and we head back home around 11 to call it a night.
In short, one of the most amazing experiences S2 and I have ever had in our 15+ years of tripping together. This was truly a 'designer trip', a combination of carefully chosen compounds discovered through years of testing and experimenting on ourselves. The ride up was so smooth, the peak so vast and expansive, and the ride down so gentle - we both feel as though we have made a great discovery here. S2's nausea during both experiences is cause for concern , however. We will certainly try this again and ensure that we are both at the same level of nourishment, rest, and clean of any other compounds at least a few days prior.
The above report was written in 2014. Over the 2 years following, S2 and I have explored the above combo a few more times and the mushroom/bk-MDMA/NO2 combo several more. The same results - an epic trip followed by a not-so-bad recovery period have continued. The 'magic' never seems to fade. We do stick to the general rule of not using full doses of empathogens more than once every month or two. Most times even less than that.
Most importantly, we discovered the cause of S2's mid-trip nausea. Vitamins and 'recovery supps' on an empty stomach. S2 has always had a 'weaker' stomach than I ever since we were kids. Since the above report we have learned to stay nourished throughout the experience, even if we don't feel like eating. Also, vitamins like 5-HTP, B12, etc. are best left until the experience is winding down. And *only* if there is food in your stomach. A dissociative like NO2, combined with the overall awesome feeling of the trip/roll, does a lot to mask serious hunger until your body lets you know it isn't happy! With this in mind, we've enjoyed the above combination many times and it's always been great. Something to keep in mind!
COPYRIGHTS: All reports are copyright Erowid and you agree not to download or analyze the report data without contacting Erowid Center and receiving permission first.
Experience Reports are the writings and opinions of the individual authors who submit them.
Some of the activities described are dangerous and/or illegal and none are recommended by Erowid Center.