Citation: Hypersphere. "Beyond the Beyond: An Experience with DMT, 5-MeO-DMT & Salvia divinorum (ID 75003)". Erowid.org. Feb 24, 2009. erowid.org/exp/75003
This report documents my experiences with the combination of smoked DMT and 5-MeO-DMT. I am male, at the time of the experiences I was 23 years old, weighing 125 pounds. I am well versed in botanical, fungal, and chemical entheogens. Before these experiences I had become familiar with both DMT and 5-MeO-DMT at doses ranging from light, to being annihilated by white light. My experiences with these tryptamines had been variously beautiful, terrifying, subtle, and overwhelming. Taken separately I find that DMT tended towards the beautiful and 5-MeO-DMT towards the uncomfortable. Both together, is something else again.
Over a four week period I experimented several times with a combination of the two substances, searching to know myself deeper and gain personal insights. As if either DMT or 5-MeO-DMT aren’t intense enough on their own, smoking the two together is a one-two knock-out. This is as far out as I have journeyed, using any substance or technique. It is truly beyond the beyond. I will present my original notes, edited for clarity and with any added commentary within square brackets.
Session 1: March 22, 2008 midday
Substance and dosage: One large inhalation from a glass vaporization tube of a mixture of roughly equal parts DMT and 5-MeO-DMT.
Set and setting: Hiking with Gemini in the mountains on a sunny early spring day. We had wandered off the trail following the edge of this small lake, drawn towards a sunny ridge. We weren’t disappointed, discovering a small round bowl of land on the other side of the ridge. It would have been swampy in the bottom in summer, but right now it was filled with snow and the tracks of deer, elk, and coyotes. Scrubby willows and aspen rise from the low areas, and a pine forest rings us, with the snowy mountain peaks towering overhead. I find a sunny sheltered spot, a piece of dry hillside under a cluster of three pine trees. Grass, bearberry, and fallen needles cover a comfortable area for sitting down.
It was a touch breezy for a normal lighter but conveniently Gemini had brought his jet lighter with him. Once I had found the appropriate method and distance at which to hold the lighter, it vaporized my chemical concoction quite nicely. I took a full lungful of white vapours. As soon as I had finished inhaling, Gemini put on a song on his phone which actually has extraordinarly good sound considering its just a phone. The song was “Hold Tight London” by The Chemical Brothers. Perfect musical accompaniment for the moment.
The tryptamine flash hit me strong and hard and beautiful. I breathed deeply, feeling the energy and letting it flow through me smoothly and unimpeded. I felt a union with the forest and the mountains around me. The forest I could feel as one large consciousness, and the mountains overlooking as stern protectors. It was a very peaceful feeling, more pleasant than diving in an inside, artificial environment. It is hard to be overwhelmed in nature, or I can be overwhelmed but its comfortable. Trees and grass and sunshine.
I began to drop out of the initial flash, but this combination is a tricky one. When I think I’m starting to come down, that is when the 5-MeO really gets to me. I find the reintegration period on 5-MeO-DMT is usually difficult, as the psychedelic effects continue for longer than DMT does. 5-MeO-DMT has such a high energy, high vibration that it is easy for me to feel overloaded. If I begin to clamp down on that energy vibration, or try to reintegrate and think normally too soon, then the excess energy gets transferred into bodily discomfort. Nausea, slight dizzyness, sometimes an anxious feeling. This time, in the natural setting I faired well with the residual effects. I stayed in a meditative state much of the time and grounded the energy.
I was staring up at the mountain overlooking us. It felt like I was talking to the mountain without words, both of us becoming aware of the other. As this happened, a cool and playful wind came whipping down on us. It seemed to me that the wind was coming right down off the mountain tops, bringing with it the scent of ice and snow. The mountain was talking back, telling me its own story of lofty heights, jagged rock, and sparkling wind-packed snowdrifts.
We lazed around for quite a lot longer in the sun as I slowly pieced myself back together. Gemini smoked a couple bowls of hash. After staring in amazement at the way everything glowed in the vibrant sunshine, I finally accepted a toke or two of hash myself. I was left with a nice afterglow from the 5-MeO/DMT mixture, my mood was very positive and I was enjoying being out in the sun and nature so much. As usual I felt hungry after coming down, raiding the bag of pistachios we’d brought along. Afterwards we continued our hike round the lake, then eventually made our way to the nearest mountain town for an satisfying feast of burgers (not the fast food kind!) and beer.
Session 2: April 1, 2008 evening
Roughly equal parts DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, one hit is definitely enough. Setting: My room, comfortable environment with dim light, music and a pillow at my back for support. Mindset: Curious to try this combination again.
Immediate impression: There are no words for this combination! I've learned that it is best for me to try not to come out of the trance state too soon. When the initial DMT flash begins to fade is when the 5-Methoxy grabs me by the balls. That’s when I got the fear, focussing everything on letting the energy flow through me into the ground. Grounding.
I purged again [as I had recently done after smoking just DMT] when I came down. I reintegrated too soon and it overloaded me with energy. The space of clarity I had gotten into was too much to try to put back in the old box. DMT is the light and 5-MeO the power.
[… after a little more integration time:]
I think I blasted off at 7:23 and it’s now 7:58. Apparently after giving myself a little time for integration, there are words for the experience after all. The combination lasts a lot longer than DMT does. It was that second wave, the 5-MeO, that really got me.
For music I was playing “Oleander” by Bluetech, though honestly I wasn’t at all aware of the music as the internal state was too involving. Soothing background sound anyway, a hypnotic and beautiful piece of ambient dub.
At first it was the typical tryptamine flash. Fractalizing and folding up. The addition of the 5-MeO adds a blinding white light to the scene, and any thought of not “breaking through” is washed away by the intensity. I was simply annihilated.
As I began to come out of the flash, I started thinking too much. Thinking about my setting, in my parents house. I am no longer comfortable letting go completely here. Maybe I never have been. This is extremely important, I have to be able to let go fully to engage the trance state in a positive manner.
At moments I was getting it. Just tapped in to that immense energy, I held my hands over the ground letting it all flow through me and into the earth. I reached a space of absolute clarity. I could feel distinctly what was holding me back and what I needed to do to move past what was holding me back.
As I came down I was flipping in and out of the “tapped in” lightning rod feeling. Each time I lost the calm trance I became anxious and would have all these worries run through my head. I need to get out of this house, was an overwhelming feeling. Things will be better when I move out. I felt an intense empathy and gratefulness for a friend of mine, thinking that she would be able to weather this kind of intensity just fine. I wanted to call her, talk with her when I came down from the tryptamine flash.
There was a definate breaking point to the energy. I coughed. This was a sign of my body fighting back, reintegrating. It was too much. That coughing purging again, just like the last couple times. It’s partially a cleansing, partially me just being overwhelmed by the residual 5-Methoxy energy tremor.
Session 3: April 2, 2008 midday
That smell tells you
Same setting, same mixture of roughly equal portions DMT and 5-MeO-DMT as last time. No clear intention, it just felt right. Pursuant to yesterday’s experience I guess.
For music I played “Lost and Found” (just the last 3-4 minutes) by The Orb, followed by Oleander by Bluetech (I wanted to use this song again to keep the setting consistent), followed finally by “Let the Music set you Free” by The Orb. I had been consuming lots of a kratom and yerba mate tea before the experience, which possibly had some influence [my experiences lead me to hypothesize that kratom particularly can increase my receptiveness to smoked tryptamines]. Initially the (low) dose of DMT left me in contact with my body and breathing freely, but as the 5-MeO seeped in that sensation of my body became more and more distant.
The first three to four minutes I was indeed, Lost, and did not Find myself until the song changed. During this phase I had sensations of pressure all over my body, but particularly in the stomach/solar plexus region. The key to not being overwhelmed is to feel. Don’t shy away from or resist the unpleasant tension in my stomach, feel it. As I feel it, the nature changes and it becomes manageable. Just intense energization. Eyes are closed.
I was aware of the song change, entering a new phase in which I spent a lot of time breathing heavily as the waves came over me. I kept being directed into certain body positions as I sat cross legged. One was to let my head drop precipitiously forward, and then bouncing up and down slightly like a spring. This seemed to form a “wave” that put me in communication with something. The waving motion of my head was important. When coming out of the “wave” I would have to lean my head all the way back, and my breathing would become heavy as the intensity of effects would shoot up a notch.
Anytime I moved my head it would create a wave of dizzyness. Moving my body more was out of the question, as this would have led to nausea due to the extreme dizzyness. The dizzyness was part of the trip though, somehow. I made some strange repetitive humming noises that seemed necessary at the time. The effects during this period were very similar to, say, a quarter oz of strong fungus. I kept trancing out with the waves, and with eyes now open crawling visuals were everywhere.
Ten or eleven minutes had elasped since blastoff as the song changed again. This was around when I became integrated with my body. A third phase, coming down. I would like to comment on duration of the experience: If I smoke just DMT, I get a 2-3 minute “flash” and come out of the trance state after 5-7 minutes. When I smoke the combination of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, I stay in the flash for 3-4 minutes and come out of the trance after 10-11 minutes. So for me adding the 5-MeO-DMT lengthens the effects and increases the potency. I hypothesize that the effects of this mixture are simply additive, not truly synergistic [eg in the case of the harmala alkaloids]. Adding 15 mg of 5-MeO-DMT to 15 of DMT is quite strong simply because of the higher potency of the 5-MeO-DMT.
Within fifteen minutes of blastoff, I was down enough to move around without getting dizzy and to start writing this report. Song lyrics seem appropriate: “That smell tells you…” Yes, yes it does. That burnt tryptamine smell, so distinctive. “If the music sets you free, then let it be! Love is the answer, only love can conquer…”
Session 4: April 2, 2008 evening
Substance, setting, and music: Same as last time. Mindset: Emotionally distraught. Struggling with my feelings of love for this girl, Jess. Recently home from having seen her, and having the issue been brought up again. It is difficult for me, feeling love for a woman who is marrying another man.
Intention: Looking for guidance, resolution, insight, or even just forgetfulness and sleep. I had a fatalistic attitude, feeling so upset inside that for once I had no fear going into the experience. Whatever happened, it couldn’t possibly be more uncomfortable than what I was feeling already could it? I was not scared, because I did not really care what happened to me.
It took three inhalations, not one, to get a suitable “flash” this time. Perhaps I was more psychically resistant in this mindset, or perhaps I had simply loaded less material in the pipe and did not get that critical mass of vaporization to blast off. This time I had a tension in my stomach going into the experience, and as the vapours took effect this tension eased somewhat, the reverse of usual.
I asked for insight and guidance, and it came. Transferance feelings and an echo effect: Why is this feeling I have for Jess so strong, and so crushing? The last time I felt this way about a girl was my ex, with whom I had an intense on and off again three year relationship. Having that feeling of love again, I felt excitement, and simultaneously, fear. The fear goes deep. I don’t want the same situation to play out again. I don’t want to feel abandonned and separated again. I was transfering some of my feelings and emotions regarding how my relationship with my ex worked out onto my relationship with Jess. Similarities in the situations have me subconsciously generalizing and expecting the same outcome even though Jess is a different person. But it goes deeper than this…
Part of a larger pattern and facing the core: I have placed myself again in a situation of externalizing my happiness. I have programmed myself so that when I am around Jess, I feel happy when she interacts positively with me. When she smiles at me, our eyes meet, a hug or a touch, it fills me with joy and tingles of excitement. When she seems distant or I see her passion for her fiancee, it makes me feel crushed inside. I feel the joy drained out of me and I become anxious, listless and with butterflies in my stomach precluding eating. The change I have to make is the same I made once before: I have to come from a stable basis of loving myself in order to form a positive long-term relationship with Jess. I have to let go of the desire for reciprocity.
The situation with Jess is part of a much larger picture. I caught a few glimpses of it. The pieces are shifting, the situation is changing. I felt I was being brought face-to-face with the core of myself, deep into the primitive and fundamental feelings and emotions driving me to think, feel and act as I do. I am experiencing this feeling now with Jess so that I can work through it. I will be stronger for this experience, and will have gained a better understanding of love.
Three dimensional, translinguistic, meaning-containing and feeling-oriented, self-transforming structures of light and colour. I think I finally get part of what Terence McKenna was on about. I could see everything, my “situation” as this rotating, shifting object. Black surfaces edged in colours spinning round a glowing white core. The object was a visual representation of what I was thinking and feeling and how the situation was changing. It contained information and expressed it in a manner beyond words.
Body positioning and letting go: As I came out of the flash I felt grief and sadness as a pure and raw emotion. For a few moments I let the feeling fill me completely. I didn’t resist, whatever was most uncomfortable and unpleasant was what I had to open up to and feel the most intensly. It obviously wasn’t a good feeling, but I felt strangely dissociated from the feeling, and a calm core was aware that things weren’t so bad really.
I was directed by the drugs and how I was feeling into lying sideways in a fetal position on the ground. The grief pouring through me was intensifying but I found myself slipping away. Let go, let go, let go. I did finally let go. The sadness and anxiety faded as my ego slipped away. Merging with the ambient environment, and now bathed in calmness and light.
I came out of this brief ego-loss, twitching and shivering. I was cold, lying here on the floor coming down. A huge wave of tiredness washed over me. I decided I should go straight to bed, and got up still dizzy, unsteady and disoriented. I kept telling myself not to loose the trance state, but by the time I undressed and got into bed and set the alarm for the next day and turned out the light, I had lost the trance. I couldn’t get back to that place of ego-loss, it was too late. I had integrated. I got to sleep relatively easily which was a blessing, and was somewhat calmer in the morning though we will see how I feel the next time I’m around Jess.
I need to reconnect with that calm center within me, that center radiating peace and love and joy simply for the fact of existence. I am feeling drawn towards cactus for trying to reconnect this way and may pursue that path in the near future.
Session 5: April 3, 2008 evening
Womb of the Mother
Same setting, same substance, and similar music as last time. Mindset: Reasonably calm, reflective but not upset as I had been the day before. Intention: Simply seeing where I might go.
I loaded the last of the mixture into the tube, though there was plenty of resin still in there too. I took two large inhalations, strangely not choking on or feeling the vapours much this time. After one breath I set the pipe down but didn’t feel it would take me all the way, so I went back for another.
There are three distinct phases to the experience, this has been consistent through all my experiences with the mixture but became clear to me only on this trip. The first phase is the tryptamine “flash”. It is during this phase that I lost contact with my body the first time, and also despite having music playing I am not really consciously aware of it. The first song was “Once Upon the Sea of Blissful Awareness” by Shpongle, just about seven minutes long. I blasted off one minute into the song, and by the last couple minutes was consciously aware of the music again. “My mind craves nectar day and night.” This phase of the experience is all-involving and irrestistably intense.
After the first phase is a false comedown, a brief lull. The tryptamine flash fades but a second, almost more powerful sensation takes over. There are sensations of pressure and I become aware of my heart pumping. The energy intensifies, heavy and thick threatening to overwhelm me. I have to concentrate everything on breathing and letting the energy flow through me into the earth. Grounding and feeling secure, comfortable. Reminding myself to just flow and ride the feeling. It is this second wave that can bring the fear with it. Existential fear, a threat to my ego. During this phase information and insight bombards me.
As the second wave fades, it leaves me in phase three, tryptamine activation. The effects are similar to a really strong dose of mushrooms or LSD, when you are completely involved in the internal experience. I am often directed into particular body positions that seem to amplify the effects of the trance. Today, it was first that head-bobbing-forward-like-a-spring thing that I discovered recently. Except this time I was almost drooling and made some interesting humming noises. Glossolalia much? After my near-drooling episode I was directed back into the fetal-egg position of yesterday’s experience.
I found a special significance in my body positioning. Once curled up like a fetus I began to feel that I was actually within a womb. I could feel a protective egg-like enclosure all around me, and eventually began to sense that I was gestating in the stomach of the Earth Mother. I wasn’t ready to come out yet, not ready to be born and face the world. Being in the womb I felt warm, safe, secure. I stayed in this position for more than twenty minutes, and during this time was able to keep the tryptamine trance state flowing. There was an endless flowing and recycling of tryptamine love back into me. I began to feel the umbilical cord, connected through my solar plexus, feeding me with life energy. At moments the trance would jump a notch in intensity, sending me out of body for the second time.
Slowly the trance state was fading, and normal thoughts were starting to seep back in. I found I could rekindle the feeling by not getting sucked into my thoughts, just feeling the mind-warp. Finally after some experimental opening and closing of my eyes I realized that my arm was painfully asleep from lying on my side for so long. Moving stiffly, groaning, I came to… impressed at how long I was able to maintain the trance this time.
At T + 36 minutes I was integrated enough to begin typing this report, though the “white” computer screen still looks rainbow to me right now. Still quite heavily effected. It is an exciting time. I am in a new phase of gestation, getting ready to be born again. What will the world be like?
Session 6: April 4, 2008 morning
How deep does the rabbit hole go? As deep as you want to go, keep digging.
Setting and music: Same as last time. Substance: Resin left over in pipe from smoking the mixture of DMT/5-MeO. Though from the smell and taste, effects and speed of onset I received, I would hazard that most of the DMT was gone and it was mostly just 5-MeO-DMT left in the pipe. Intention: Digging deeper.
I took one large inhalation and as I wasn’t being overwhelmed right away like I was used to, I went back for a second. The second was a big one, I could see that ball of brownish melted crystals bubbling furiously. Oops, took a little too much perhaps.
Right as I was finishing my second inhalation, the phone rang. Oops again. Clearly I wasn’t going to be answering but the ringing reminded me strongly of the normal world and normal concerns, and I became quite anxious as a result. I wasn’t letting go like I needed to.
There is a certain aspect of 5-MeO-DMT that is like being smacked across the head with a brick. Or perhaps, like having the sun come down from the sky and crush me, folding me over and over again like a sheet. Heavy, heavy, incapacitating buzz. I flopped on my side into the fetal position again, but this provided no comfort. I was enormously dizzy and the tension in my stomach combined with the dizzyness to provoke nausea.
I somehow ran to the bathroom in this psychedelic mindstate, and leaning over the porcelain alter purged. And purged. And purged. There was nothing in my stomach at all, I had blasted off soon after getting up and had eaten no breakfast. What was coming out of me was thick mucous or something, filled with the scent and taste of 5-MeO. I was reminded strongly of my Ayahuasca experiences. Bleh.
I know that the reason I purged this time was because I wasn’t comfortable letting go to the experience. The anxiety had to come out as the energy of 5-MeO is simply overwhelming. I overloaded myself this time. It was a pretty strong dose but I could have handled it fine had I remained calm and flowed with the effects.
After the purge I was still strongly effected, but the flash of the experience had passed. I was able to sit meditatively and get into a good state of mind. I felt cleaned out and did not regret the experience in any way, though I should have prepared my setting and myself better before diving.
Session 7: April 10, 2008 evening
Set and setting: My room, nighttime. Preloaded with a tea of kratom, blue lotus, yerba mate, white pine, sweetgrass and sage. Energized and clearing, good for dreaming. Intention: Manifesting a home for myself and chosen companions.
I loaded a little DMT into the pipe, but from the taste and smell became aware I was smoking quite a bit of 5-MeO-DMT resin from the bottom of the pipe, too. As I entered the trance I became aware of two entities. On my right hand side and quite close was one of the beings; the other was behind me and on my left side, at a little more distance. They felt very protective, like guardians. The one close and to my right was bathing the side of my head with sweeping motions.
The being on my right side started communicating with me through flashes of light and colour. The fluorescent light beside me was being played with, being made to flicker and flash in order to communicate. The beings sort of come “out of the woodwork”, the one beside me was manifesting as part of my bed, the fluorescent light, and part of the floor. He opened the top of my head and poured in information.
I realized I could open a dialogue with these beings. I could ask them questions, and they would respond with these flashes of light-communication. I told them I wanted a home to live in with those I have chosen as a new family. I told them I want to have a partner. I want her to find me, or me to find her… I want us to find each other. A tight and beautiful little hippy girl whose heart melts when I look in her eyes. It doesn’t hurt to ask, right?
[Within three weeks of this experience, we had a home! Within two months I had found my sacred lover. I got everything I asked for.]
I was curious about these entities. Remembering one DMT report saying that the entities can have gender, I asked both if they had a sex. The entity behind and on my left seemed to indicate it was a strange question to ask, and she dredged up some imagery for me… large breasts, large hips, direct stare. A motherly figure. The entity on my right seemed amused by the question. As if saying, “Well we normally don’t take that form anymore!” But he confided to being a male, if I wanted to think about it that way.
These entities, these light beings are here for me. To protect me and guide me. As I was coming out of the trance state I felt the desire to lie down, and asked that the entities stay with me. Please don’t leave as I move around, I wish to stay in contact with you. They heeded my call, and when I lay down in bed I could still sense that comforting flashing of light indicating their presence. I did some relaxation/meditation techniques that put me deep into a dissociated state. Deep thinking.
Thinking about eyes. The eyes being the window to the soul. The soul perceives reality through our eyes. The patterns and colours in our irises is a visual representation of the frames and paradigms through which we interpret reality. Without those pigments and patterns we would see nothing but chaos and blinding light. We have to filter and make sense of reality, and this is what you see in peoples eyes. You see how they make sense of reality. A friend told me of a new band appearing in her eye, which would be a new mode or paradigm for viewing reality.
Eventually I drifted easily into sleep. My dreams that night were vivid, meaningful and I had better recollection that I normally do. Dreaming of being in some kind of crowd, or festival. And seeing Jess from a distance, sitting up in a truck… I blow a kiss her way. She smiles and waves at the friends around me, but does not seem to see me at all. There is a feeling of loneliness and separation.
Session 8: April 17, 2008 evening
Salvia preloading for smoking DMT/5-MeO
I’d first given three attempts at breaking through on just DMT. Each time I bounced off the edges of the trance state, not achieving liftoff velocity. There is at first a rising tone and feeling, but if I don’t make it through then this quickly changes to a sensation of dropping and grounding out. The doses left me functional enough to move around without falling over. Which was good, because the main effect seemed to be purgative. I coughed and hacked all kinds of sickness out of me. It was cleansing, but didn’t take me where where I was trying to go. I wanted to break through tonight.
Felt a strange calling towards Salvia, knowing subconsciously where the bag of leaves was and not needing to search for it, simply reaching behind me and pulling it out of the hidey-hole. It has been many months since I last danced the divinorum. At this time I was still feeling the afterglow from the DMT.
I took two large, dry leaves and folded them, placing between my cheek and gum. Slowly they soften and can be chewed. Slippery Salvia saliva tastes bitter like chewing green tea. I spat the quid and liquid out when it seemed appropriate, after several minutes of chewing. A perceptual shift was becoming increasingly evident. Hard to put a finger on what, exactly, had changed. Perhaps a little of that Salvia gravity was becoming noticeable.
So I loaded a little bit of mixed DMT and 5-MeO-DMT into the pipe, and I do mean just a little bit. Tiny grains. After filling my lungs, there was no doubt about achieving liftoff this time! The oncoming rush was annihilating me, and I think I became quite panicked, resisting the onset.
Things are a little fuzzy in my recollection here, but I ended up on the bed sideways being twisted and pulled into the blankets. I was twitching and rolling around a lot, that I remember clearly. The twisting sideways sensation I would attribute to the Salvia. The emotional tone of the experience was one of fear. Fear and a sense of illusion, of trickery and something somewhere laughing at my predicament. For me, adding DMT to 5-MeO-DMT shifted the tone of 5-MeO from terror to bliss. Adding Salvia to the mix seemed to reverse the effect, dredging me down into terror with an irrestistable gravitational vacuuming.
The effects lasted a long time. I can’t say exactly how long, but it took a good 30 to 45 minutes before I would consider myself “integrated” again. The afterglow of the tryptamines combined with sublingual Salvia left me slipping and being pulled through damp thought corridors at high speeds. Dancing auroras of light and energy surrounded me. The feeling was oddly dream-like and unreal. When I finally came out of the trance, I was drenched in sweat. Sleep came easily and my dreams were extremely vivid all night.
Using chewed Salvia before smoking the tryptamines seemed to destroy the lucidity and clarity of the tryptamine flash. I have difficulty bringing anything back from this experience. It was certainly intense but I’m hesitant to try again.
That’s all folks, thanks for reading. You might ask, what impact did these experiences have on me? I feel they gave me guidance and insight at a time when I was feeling lost, lonely and anxious. They are life affirming experiences, showing me glimpses of the unplumbed depths of my mind. As the late, great Terence McKenna said, “The imagination, the inside of our heads, really is the most vast frontier imaginable.”
Reminding me, everything that happens is within the highest good. Reminding me to trust my heart and intuition. To have a comfortable experience, I must accept that I am experiencing what I need to experience. I must surrender to the flow of life. Letting go of the fear inherent in diving so deep leaves me instead profoundly open to giving and receiving love.
Experience Reports are the writings and opinions of the individual authors who submit them.
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