Newsgroups: alt.drugs From: email@example.com Subject: Re: The Ipomoea family [Tragedy] Message-ID: <0096F627.EF7C666E@pomona.claremont.edu> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1993 17:29:48 GMT In article <firstname.lastname@example.org>, email@example.com (Kevin Meyer) writes: >Can anyone tell me anything useful about the potential uses of that strain of >morning glory known as Ipomoea Palmata? Well, unfortunately, _The_Botany_and_Chemistry_of_Hallucinogens_ doesn't list this particular strain. This edition is 13 years old though, so its possible that Palmata is a synonym for something they do talk about. The horticultural morning glories they talk about that contain LAA's are: Heavenly Blue, Pearly Gates, Flying Saucers, Wedding Bells, Summer Skies, and Blue Stars. Those may all just be different kinds of Tricolor, I don't know. As far as species names, for the Ipomea's and related plants they list: Ipomea Tricolor (= Ipomea Violacea = Ipomea Rubrocaerulea) and Turbina Corymbosa (the original Mexican morning glories, "ololiuqui"), which is sometimes also called Rivea Corymbosa and Ipomoea sidaefolia. At the end of the book there's a list of plants of alleged hallucinogenic effects, for which no suitable studies had yet been done. Lots of Ipomea's on this list: I. argyrophylla " batatas " hederacea " muricata " nil " pharbitis " pupurea Again, palmata is not on this list. Couldn't hurt to try, though. Let us know what happens, OK? peace, tony -- I need a new sig. ============================================================================= Newsgroups: alt.drugs From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Dale Clark) Subject: Morning Glory Seeds & Nutmeg Message-ID: <1993May11.email@example.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 15:28:05 GMT The following is from several sources, but the primary source is called "The Encyclopedia of Psychotropic Drugs.": BTW, If I'm posting repeats of FAQs already researched, or wasting people's time, tell me and I'll be glad to stop researching and posting this material. I don't want to waste bandwidth on something which has already been analyzed or is well known. Lysergic acid occurs in several substances called 'ergot alkaloids' found in members of the 'Convolvulaceae' (morning glory) family. Especially 'Rivea corymbosa' and 'Ipomoea violacea'. Both of these are cultivated in many horticultural varieties. In this form, they are only 5 to 10% as potent as LSD. To reach hallucinatory effects comparable to 200 to 300 micrograms of LSD (a 4 to 14 hour experience), a person would have to ingest 100 to 300 morning glory seeds. The seeds can be ground up and ingested like a tea, chewed, or swallowed whole. The Aztec indians called the species 'Rivea corymbosa' the name: 'oloiuqui' and used it frequently in various rituals. Mexican indians also used the seeds to diagnose illnesses and fortell various future events. To discourage use today, commercial seed producers treat the seeds with a poisonous coating which cannot be removed by washing. The effects from this coating cause nausea, comiting and severe abdominal pain. Extremely high doses cause psychotic reactions, heart failure, and shock. I personally feel this is terrible. To attempt to stop the usage of drugs by poisoning people is ridiculous! ============================================================================= First of all, the obvious reason why someone might use these seeds instead of LSD: they're legal. Second, I've never heard of them causing coma. Some info from the Psychedelic Encyclopedia, yet again: "When the Conquistadores subdued the Aztecs, early chroniclers recorded that the Indians made religious and medicinal use of peyote, another psychoactive plant called tlitliltzin, and a small lentil-like seed called ololiuqui. The third, alleged to have been used also for purposes of divination, came from a vine known in the Nahuatl language as coaxihuitil (or `snakeplant')." Let me paraphrase some more. Illustrations from the Florentine Codex suggested that coaxihuitil was a member of the morning glory family. Though this family (Convolvulaceae) has over 500 species all over the globe, they seem to have been used for their psychoactive properties only in the New World. In 1959, the ethnobotanist Richard Schultes sent samples of a cultivated Mexican morning glory, Turbina corymbosa, to Albert Hofmann, the discoverer of LSD. Schultes had seen it used by a Zapotec shaman. In 1960, Hofmann analyzed the seeds and said they contained ergot-like alkaloids. This was hard for people to believe since previously such chemicals had only been found in the rye fungus Claviceps purpurea (ergot). But Hofmann was right; the seeds contained d-lysergic acid amide. This differs from LSD only in that it has a NH2 where LSD has a N(C2H5)2, but LSD is some 50 to 100 times as potent. The morning glory Turbina corymbosa's seeds also have other psychoactive alkaloids in them: d-isolysergic acid amide, chanoclavine, elymoclavine, and lysergol. In 1960, Don Thomes MacDougall reported that seeds of another morning glory, Ipomoea violacea were used as sacraments by certain Zapotecs, sometimes with the Turbina corymbosa seeds and sometimes not. This morning glory species is the one with familiar varieties in America: Heavenly Blue, Pearly Gates, Flying Saucers, Blue Star, Summer Skies and Wedding Bells. (Does anyone one know if the more cosmic names are allusions to the psychedelic properties of the seeds? The idea of "flying saucer seeds" is pretty funny.) The Ipomoea violacea has the same psychoactive compounds in it except with ergometrine instead of lysergol. Ergometrine has strong uterus-stimulating properties so it's a really bad idea for pregnant women to eat these seeds. Also, these seeds are supposed to be bad for people with liver problems (e.g. jaundice, hepatitus). These seeds are called badoh negro down in South America, since they are black, and some people think these were the mysterious tlitliltzin, which is the Nahuatl word for "black" with a reverential suffix. Anyway, nothing about "comas". ============================================================================= Do NOT experience the nausea. Take 1 teaspoon of FRESH GINGER before eating the seeds. -- firstname.lastname@example.org Mind Heart No Me email@example.com Difference Destruction Death You ============================================================================= The substances that cause a lot of the sickness in morning glory seeds are essential oils that are irritants. These can be removed by ligroin (Zippo lighter fluid fits the bill greatly.). The ligroin would be evaporated then the seeds would be soaked in methanol or ethanol. The alcohol evaporated and the leftover residue would be consumed. This is not a hazardous nor particularly dangerous precedure except for flammability. The active constituents are largely lysergic amides but also include chanoclavine, a tricyclic ergoloid which has the ring that contains the carboxyl opened. This is the biosynthetic precursor to the lysergoids. Chanoclavine is reported to be psychoactive in man, although the studies of its action are paultry (Experientia 16, 414 (1960), Albert Hofmann). Also it's presence hasn't actually been confirmed in the morning glory species in question, I. violaceae (tricolour), but in Rivea corymbosa. But it's presence in R. corymbosa should be a hint that it is also in I. violaceae because in R. Corymbosa it is a precursor to an alkaloid that has been confirmed in I. violaceae as well. St. Anthony -- / N \ O I don't need God! | \ | || Ph All I need is an amoeba! | | |_O-C-C-OH \ / / Ph St. Anthony | firstname.lastname@example.org =========================================================================== email@example.com writes: >> Does anyone know with certainty which varieties of morning glory >> seeds (in addition to Heavenly Blue) are psychoactive? Was >> Heavenly Blue the only variety used among the Aztecs? >> all garden varieties of morning glory are of the species Ipomoea tricolor, also known as Ipomoea violacea. according to Wasson in "The Present Status of Ololiuhqui and Hallucinogens of Mexico,"(Botanical Museum Leaflets, Harvard University, Vol. 20, No. 6, Nov. 22, 1963, pp. 161-212) the species identified as Ololiuhqui(the Native Mexican(he doesnt say whether theyre Aztecs) name for the plant we's all talkin' about) is Rivea Corymbosa, "a morning glory" he says. Ololiuhqui is probably what youre talking about, as it's fairly well-known and is the plant from which Hofmann isolated the active amides. However, later in the article, Wasson says that in another part of Mexico, "the Zapotec area," another related plant is used for the same purpose, and is known as Tlitliltzen(don't ask me to pronounce it) or Badoh Negro. This plant is identified as a wild variety of Ipomoea violacea, the very same species we grow in our garden. I'm led to believe, however, that this variety is quite different from the garden varieties, in that Wasson claims that both ololiuhqui and tlitliltzen are taken in dosages of 7 to 21 seeds, and all the anecdotes ive heard about getting a buzz of heavenly blue or flying saucers speak of sucking down hundreds of the little buggers. so Heavenly Blue(which I would imagine is a product of selective breeding and is native to nowhere) in not the variety used among the Aztecs, if in fact it was/is the Aztecs that use them(I thought there were no more aztecs and hadnt been for a long long time. or is that the mayans? or is it both?) -- Chuck Falzone firstname.lastname@example.org ============================================================================= Message-ID: <115305Z31121994@anon.penet.fi> Newsgroups: alt.drugs From: email@example.com Date: Sat, 31 Dec 1994 11:46:21 UTC Subject: Re: MG seeds DO work. [quoted text deleted -cak] A few comments on your posts from Dr. D: The poison on MG seeds has usually been captan, a fungicide, and it is a purple=colored powdery COATING that may be washed off reasonably well, although slight traces would certainly remain. Corn seeds are often similarly coated, and US law requires that seeds treated with captan carry a warning label on the package. You are correct in saying that Amerindian shamans made a cold water extraction of the seeds, and that this is the best method. A pinch of tartaric acid in the water should aid the extraction, especially if using city water which is made basic to prevent lead leaching from old plumbing. The most important thing with MG seeds is to grind them to a VERY FINE powder, since the 4 or 5 lysergic acid amides which are psychoactive reside in the embryo of the seed which must be well pulverized for efficient extraction. The rest of the seed parts contain no alkaloid but other compounds which may largely account for side effects. Most lysergic acid alkaloids are vasoconstricting, and the medieval disease St. Anthony's Fire or ergotism, was the result of eating high doses of ergotamine in bread made from infected grain. At first tingling in the extremities, and finally gangrene plus mental disorders was the result. Taking MG seeds every couple of days just begins to approach the dose level where first symptoms are possible. Taking them once a month should entail no risk whatsoever. For nausea, 50's and 60's clinical research found that a light meal 1/2 to 1 hour before was effective. But this would not apply to peyote, here, the nausea results from the high concentration of soaps in the plant. If you extract peyote buds to obtain the alkaloids free of soap and other impurities, nausea is a rare side-effect. Dr. D
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