Citation: Murple. "Pie Tasting: An Experience with BZP & TFMPP (exp2393)". Erowid.org. Jul 13, 2000. erowid.org/exp/2393
125mg of BZP HCl was measured and put in one gelcap, 75mg of TFMPP monohydrochloride was measured into another. Today is the last day of the Aztec calendar - the prophesied end of the world. Well... that may not be the case, but, it does promise to be an interesting night. I'm a little nervous - its the first time I've done something *totally* new in a long long time. New chemical family. My friend tried 150mg of BZP and 75mg of TFMPP two days ago. He weighs a bit more than I do, so I adjusted down the BZP dose. He also said he would've taken more TFMPP next time, so I'm leaving the dose of that the same.
Piperazines certainly look different from tryptamines or phenethylamines. The BZP is a white, fluffy yet clumpy, sparkly powder. Looks very much like the wet snow you get when its just barely below freezing. The TFMPP is not sparkly, really... clumpy off-white powdery substance. Both have a sort of waxiness to them - something about how they reflect light. I've had them for months, but kept putting them off for other things. My friend's very positive experience brought my curiosity to a peak, however - especially the comment that he found it more enjoyable than 5-MeO-DIPT.
BZP down the hatch!
TFMPP down the hatch!
I'm feeling 'something' now, which feels sort of like the first alert of phenethylamines, I think. I did have 2g of GHB and a little cannabis earlier, but this is definately more than that. Too undefined yet at this point to describe.
I think this is going to be a pretty strong trip. I'm begining to feel a sense of warmth over my whole body, very much like MDMA. I'm getting alot of yawns, something my friend also got when it began to work on him. My visual field is altered... like very low dose mescaline, perhaps. Sounds seem altered, but I'm not quite sure how, yet.
Very much like MDMA indeed! At least, physically. I feel very warm and cozy. There is much more going on visually than from MDMA. Colors are very bright. Things look very crisp. Music is definately enhanced, similar to the music enhancement from MDMA. Mentally, there's nothing spectacular going on. It is similar to, but much milder and sublter than MDMA. Physically though... very much like MDMA. If I'd taken it without knowing, I would've probably thought I'd taken a low dose of some MDMA class drug. But there are noticable differences, and I think I would be able to distinguish them now.
WOW! This is amazing. VERY much like MDEA, but with even less emotional and spiritual opening. It is mostly a physical thing. I feel very warm and cozy. My skin feels very alive. I imagine this would be a spectacular sexual enhancer! I got none of the nausea my friend got. In fact, aside from an MDMA-like thirst, and some mild jaw clench, I can see no negatives at all. It is much less of a stimulant than MDMA class drugs, and in fact, I feel somewhat dreamy like from mescaline... like I could sleep, although I doubt thats a realistic option at this point hehehe! Yawning and stretching are amazing. Breathing feels highly erotic. There is much more of a visual aspect than with MDMA-like drugs. Colors are all shifted slightly towards the pink, so that white looks almost salmon. There are mild mescaline-like spiderwebby overlays on everything. The visuals are much like a low dose of a mescaline or 2C-T-2 type drug. Some MDMA-like fluttervision due to nystagmus as well. Interesting blend there. However, the physical is obviously the focus of this particular combination.
Things are still building. This is great stuff. Don't feel like writing much right now... Things haven't changed in quality, but intensity has gone up a notch or two.
I'm at a little over 2 hours into this now. I think I've reached the peak effects. Very nice! A subtler version of MDMA, with mild visuals. No spiritual or emotional depth, at least not that I've noticed in this context. I imagine it could lead to some very open and deep conversations in the right company, however. I feel very lucid and free. The prominent effects are the suffused warmth and coziness, similar to MDMA or, even more so, MDEA... and the visuals. The visuals are very mild and remind me of low dose mescaline. Spidery overlays, bright colors, sharpened depth, halos surrounding bright objects (including the white letters on my computer monitor, making reading a little awkward at times). I am writing this mainly for the purpose of documentation... my heart isn't really in it at the moment. Too focused of an activity. I've described the key points pretty well anyway... I shall add to this later in the trip as warranted, but for now I have better things to do.
Perhaps I jumped the gun a little when I thought I'd peaked. It did go up a notch there. Also, I may have been in error to think that it lacks depth. It has depth, but it is in a different way from MDMA or mescaline, the two things this most remembles. Those are somewhat misleading comparisons. This is something else... a fundamental difference in nature and focus. I'm not quite sure yet what the strenghts of this combination are on the mental level, but there are undoubtedly applications for this that are not immediately apparant. One could easily focus on just the physical aspect and completely miss the deeper side, if they were not careful or did not wish to take it that direction. The term 'clarity' comes to mind, when trying to describe the mental aspect of this trip. Also, a sort of meditative quietness. Calm. Centeredness.
This stuff is quite a bit more psychedelic than I originally felt.
Similarities to phenethylamines are amazing, but this is something rather
different, when you look more closely. I'm noticing rather extreme time
dilation, although its not apparant unless I look at the clock. Writing is
difficult, because if I stop for a second, I get distracted and forget
that I was trying to write, until I see this window open and think 'Oh
Noticably descending now... but still very nice. I am realizing in retrospect that I was quite a bit further out than I thought at the time. I don't think I'll truly appreciate this until I've had a night to sleep on it.
I have alot of the visual effects still, and some of the physical sensations. Things have settled down A LOT though. I could easily sleep, and in fact am a little tired even. The come-down from this is very phenethylamine-like. Gradual, and lingering, with the visual effects lasting all the way through. I think I shall see if GHB cushions the tail end as nicely as it does with phenethylamines, and conclude this report.
Well, I'm still quite wide awake. Moreso than I was an hour ago, even. The GHB seems to have had the effect of bringing the trip back, much like it does with MDMA or mescaline. I *could* sleep, I'm sure... but the desire to is not there. I think, perhaps, a little more GHB in a little while, then sleep will seem more appealing.
The past halg hour or so, I've felt mostly just a stimulant effect. Some mild visuals, but most of what I feel now, beyond the stimulation, is the GHB... I could definately sleep now, and in fact I'm yawning now. That second dose of GHB, when I do it, will put me right out. This has been quite an enjoyable night!
What do you know, still awake! Still pretty alert. Sleep would be very possible, but I've been busy doing other stuff. If I wanted to, and had not done that second dose of GHB, I think I could stay up for a long time still. The second GHB dose, however, is making sleep seem to be a rather attractive option.
It was after 9:30 before I went to bed. Fell asleep rather quickly when I did (with some assistance from GHB). Slept until around 6PM. Woke up and felt rather spacey, like the day after a high dose acid trip, but much more rained, with a persistant headache. I found that when I smoked cannabis, I felt somewhat piperaziney again, even having some mild visual alterations. I became tired early, and was asleep by 3AM. Some residual exhaustion the day after still. I would not recommend using this drug the night before a busy day... and I would probably advise taking it earlier than midnight. I will definately try this again sometime, though.
Many people reading this report may find it to be quite positive and may get the impression that these piperazines offer a viable alternative to MDMA. It would be a major mistake to draw this conclusion. I wrote this report during my experience and the day after, and regret publishing it so soon. Had I written my report after the experience was fully ended, it would have been a very different report. With the benefit of one more piperazine experience and the clarity of hindsight, I must add to this report to prevent people from drawing invalid conclusions from it.
I first decided to try the piperazines because I am very fond of MDMA, and I badly wanted to find a legal alternative. Piperazines seemed to offer hope of this. Unfortunately, there were at least as many negatives as there were positives. Much of what comes across in this report as glowing enthusiasm for the piperazines is in fact largely an attempt to convince myself that I was having a good time - remember, I was writing as I was experiencing. There were quite a few negatives which I tried to play down. To a large extent, I was successful in mentally suppressing my awareness of these negatives, at least during this first trip. This doesn't mean they weren't there, however.
During the trip itself, the side effects weren't too extreme. There was a mild headache which would come and go, getting worse towards the end of the trip. During the initial phases of the experience, breathing felt really sensual... over a few hours however, this gradually changed over to a somewhat disturbing sensation that my lungs were filled with some kind of liquid. During my second piperazine experience, this effect was very pronounced, scaring the hell out of me. I suspect that these drugs produce a dramatic increase in mucus production in the lungs. GHB was able to mask much of the nastier side effects, at least this time.
The worst part of the experience came after the trip itself had ended. Waking up the next day, I felt drained, similar to after taking a high dose of something like LSD. This was accompanied by a persistent headache. Rather than getting better after a few hours, it got worse. In the end, the hangover lasted about 2 days, and felt similar to having a bad flu - lots of headaches and muscle aches, lack of energy, mental impairment, and a general poisoned feeling. I tried to convince myself it wasn't that bad because I so badly wanted a legal alternative to MDMA... but really, it was horrible. Nothing I've ever taken has come close to giving me the sort of hangover piperazines are capable of producing.
My second piperazine experience was much worse, leaving me convinced for several hours that I was about to die. Physical side effects were extreme and frightening, and the hangover from that experience lasted several days.
These drugs do not offer anything close to an acceptable MDMA substitute. While the initial part of trip may have many parallels to taking ecstasy, I have very serious concerns about the safety of these chemicals. I suspect they have a very high potential for toxicity. The physical side effects can be very uncomfortable, especially towards the end of the trip, and the 2 or more day hangover is pure hell. I have recently (early 2001) seen reports of piperazine pills being passed off as ecstasy. This disturbs me greatly. I strongly encourage ecstasy users to make sure they test any pills they buy before taking them, and do not take any pills which may be piperazines. You really do not want to experience this hangover!
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