Miscellaneous Dissociative Info
From: agaluhn Newsgroups: alt.drugs Subject: Re: Ketamine Date: Nov 6, 1993 J. Stratton writes: >Ketamine is a variation on PCP, and is practically the same thing. Um, not unless you have a _real_ loose definition of being the same: Ketamine: 2-(2-Chlorophenyl)-2-(methylamino)cyclohexanone PCP: 1-(1-Phenylcyclohexyl)piperidine I'd give the structures, but my ASCII renderings suck. But they don't even have the same number of rings, and not very many functional groups in common. They're completely different substances. peace, tony ==================================================== From: S. Dyer Newsgroups: alt.drugs Subject: Re: Ketamine Date: Nov 6, 1993 firstname.lastname@example.org writes: >>Ketamine is a variation on PCP, and is practically the same thing. > >Um, not unless you have a _real_ loose definition of being the same: > >Ketamine: 2-(2-Chlorophenyl)-2-(methylamino)cyclohexanone >PCP: 1-(1-Phenylcyclohexyl)piperidine > >I'd give the structures, but my ASCII renderings suck. But they don't even >have the same number of rings, and not very many functional groups in common. >They're completely different substances. Both are dissociative anaesthetics. Both are based on a phenyl group and a substituted amino group attached to the same cyclohexyl carbon. Ketamine was synthesized in a search for less toxic analogues of PCP. The structural similarity between the two is obvious even to someone who isn't a pharmaceutical chemist. They are different substances, but they're clearly in the same chemical and pharmacological families. ========================================== From: William E. White Subject: Re: Special K = PCP Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives Date: Oct 1, 1994 02:09:09 GMT In article email@example.com, Murple firstname.lastname@example.org wrote: >Although PCP and Ketamine have virtually identical effects, they are 2 >different drugs. I'd like to point out that most NMDA/sigma agents (of which PCP and ketamine are two) tend to have fairly individual patterns of affinity and activity on their targets (which include at least two sigma receptor types, at least two and probably three NMDA receptor sites, one reuptake site, and probably a couple of others). Having tried neither PCP nor ketamine (and not having the desire to try either), I wouldn't know for sure, but I would bet there would be some difference between the two, given that they do exhibit subtly different activity and affinity spectra. Incidentally, MK-801 (dizocilipine? or something like that), which is another of the same class of NMDA/sigma agents, should have a similar set of effects. MK-801 is being investigaged for its neuroprotective effects (against excitotoxicity from endogenous quinolinic acid and other assaults); PCP and ketamine should have the same abilities, but somehow I don't see many patients reacting positively to "well, we'd like to dose you with PCP to cut down on brain damage from that head injury". >Ketamine is still used in veterinary medicine, but I'm not >sure if it is used in humans...although it is legal for medical use, as >far as I know. Several times when this topic has come up, it has been mentioned that ketamine is used as an anaesthetic in severe burn victims. Why this is, I don't know. ==================================================== From: Yazmar the UnClean Subject: Re: PCP Research information Newsgroups: alt.drugs Date: Jun 9, 1994 MK-801 is a drug in the PCP/ketamine family. Quite a bit more potent than both. I've never heard of it being being used as a 'recreational' psychedelic however. I keep running across references to it while searching for ketamine articles on medline. Yaz ==================================================== From: S.K. Gill Subject: MK-801 Date: May 17, 1995 Recently, upon indulging my curiosity on what files hyperreal.com/drugs/ had under "dissociative anaesthetics", I noticed MK-801 (dizocilpine) listed along with ketamine, pcp, etc. The former is not an anaesthetic, and does not induce the entheogenic states typical of ketamine. See, for example Physiol. & Behavior, *54*, 547 (1993), Pharmacology, Biochemistry & Behavior, *48*, 935, (1994), and Neuropsychopharmacology *11*, 167, (1994). In all three papers, the lack of pcp-like anaesthesia with MK-801 is mentioned, and it is further pointed out that blockade of NMDA receptors alone is not the mechanism of action of dissociative anaesthetics. Of course it is well known that the latter strongly affect sigma endorphin receptors, and DA receptors as well. MK-801 is relatively free of these effects, thus listing MK-801 with ketamine is misleading, to say the least. If you wish to list other dissociative agents, you should certainly include tiletamine, the N-ethyl, thienyl analog of ketamine. In admixture with a benzodiazepine, it is known as Telazol, and is used as an animal anaesthetic. Hopefully this information has been of possible utility.. Respectfully, S ==================================================== From: T. Swiss Newsgroups: alt.drugs Subject: Re: "Hard" Drug Legalization (was Re: Eskimo North Users Meeting & Iniative Measure 595) Let's look at that most demonized of all drugs, PCP. Turns you into a violent supercriminal, right? Wrong. Here's what the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services said in _Drug Abuse and Drug Abuse Research_, an annual report to Congress. (1991, p 153) "There are two aspects to phencyclidine (PCP) intoxication that have warranted particular attention by the general public, as well as by law-enforcement and clinical personnel. Both aspects concern the relationship between phencyclidine abuse and aggressive behavior. There are reports of increased aggressiveness and 'super-human' strength that develop in some people who take phencyclidine. Recent studies, including those of men arrested for criminal activity in Washington D.C. and New York City (Wish 1986) and evaluations of published clinical reports of phencyclidine intoxication (Brecher et al. 1988), indicate that if phencyclidine induces violent, criminal behavior, it does so only extremely infrequently. Although Wish (1986) noted that most men who had urines positive for phencyclidine were younger than those who had taken no drugs or other drugs, their crimes were likely to be __less aggressive__ than the crimes of those who had not taken phencyclidine. [emphasis added -ma] Khajawall et al. (1982) found no difference in the behavior of clients admitted for phencyclidine detoxification and those admitted for opioid detoxification. __Thus, phencylidine-induced aggression appears to be a rare phenomenon, if it occurs at all__. [emph -ma]" cited references: Wish, E.D. PCP and crime: just another illicit drug? _Natl Inst Drug Abuse Res Monogr Ser_ 64:174-189, 1986. Brecher, M.; Wang, B.W.; Wong, H.; and Morgan, J.P. Phencyclidine and violence: clinical and legal issues. _J Clinical Psychopharmacology_ 8:397-401, 1988. Khajawall, A.M.; Erickson, T.B.; and Simpson, G.M. Chronic phencyclidine abuse and physical assault. _Am J Psychiat_ 139:1604-1606, 1982.