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Miscellaneous Dissociative Info
From: agaluhn
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: Re: Ketamine
Date: Nov 6, 1993

J. Stratton writes:
>Ketamine is a variation on PCP, and is practically the same thing. 

Um, not unless you have a _real_ loose definition of being the same:

Ketamine: 2-(2-Chlorophenyl)-2-(methylamino)cyclohexanone
PCP: 1-(1-Phenylcyclohexyl)piperidine

I'd give the structures, but my ASCII renderings suck.  But they don't even
have the same number of rings, and not very many functional groups in common. 
They're completely different substances.

peace, tony


From: S. Dyer
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: Re: Ketamine
Date: Nov 6, 1993 writes:
>>Ketamine is a variation on PCP, and is practically the same thing. 
>Um, not unless you have a _real_ loose definition of being the same:
>Ketamine: 2-(2-Chlorophenyl)-2-(methylamino)cyclohexanone
>PCP: 1-(1-Phenylcyclohexyl)piperidine
>I'd give the structures, but my ASCII renderings suck.  But they don't even
>have the same number of rings, and not very many functional groups in common. 
>They're completely different substances.

Both are dissociative anaesthetics.  Both are based on a phenyl group and
a substituted amino group attached to the same cyclohexyl carbon.  Ketamine
was synthesized in a search for less toxic analogues of PCP.  The structural
similarity between the two is obvious even to someone who isn't a
pharmaceutical chemist.  They are different substances, but they're
clearly in the same chemical and pharmacological families.


From: William E. White
Subject: Re: Special K = PCP
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Date: Oct 1, 1994 02:09:09 GMT

In article 35q1ek$, Murple wrote:

>Although PCP and Ketamine have virtually identical effects, they are 2 
>different drugs.

I'd like to point out that most NMDA/sigma agents (of which PCP and ketamine
are two) tend to have fairly individual patterns of affinity and activity
on their targets (which include at least two sigma receptor types, at
least two and probably three NMDA receptor sites, one reuptake site, and
probably a couple of others).  Having tried neither PCP nor ketamine (and
not having the desire to try either), I wouldn't know for sure, but I
would bet there would be some difference between the two, given that
they do exhibit subtly different activity and affinity spectra.
Incidentally, MK-801 (dizocilipine? or something like that), which is
another of the same class of NMDA/sigma agents, should have a similar
set of effects.  MK-801 is being investigaged for its neuroprotective
effects (against excitotoxicity from endogenous quinolinic acid and
other assaults); PCP and ketamine should have the same abilities, but
somehow I don't see many patients reacting positively to "well, we'd
like to dose you with PCP to cut down on brain damage from that head

>Ketamine is still used in veterinary medicine, but I'm not 
>sure if it is used in humans...although it is legal for medical use, as 
>far as I know.

Several times when this topic has come up, it has been mentioned that
ketamine is used as an anaesthetic in severe burn victims.  Why this is,
I don't know.


From: Yazmar the UnClean
Subject: Re: PCP Research information
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Date: Jun 9, 1994

MK-801 is a drug in the PCP/ketamine family.  Quite a bit more potent than
both.  I've never heard of it being being used as a 'recreational' psychedelic
however.  I keep running across references to it while searching for ketamine
articles on medline.



From: S.K. Gill
Subject: MK-801
Date: May 17, 1995

Recently, upon indulging my curiosity on what files had under
"dissociative anaesthetics", I noticed MK-801 (dizocilpine) listed along
with ketamine, pcp, etc.  The former is not an anaesthetic, and does not induce the 
entheogenic states typical of ketamine.

See, for example Physiol. & Behavior, *54*, 547 (1993), Pharmacology,
Biochemistry & Behavior, *48*, 935, (1994), and
Neuropsychopharmacology *11*, 167, (1994). In all three papers, the lack of
pcp-like anaesthesia with MK-801 is mentioned, and it is further pointed out
that blockade of NMDA receptors alone is not the mechanism of action of
dissociative anaesthetics. Of course it is well known that the latter
strongly affect sigma endorphin receptors, and DA receptors as well. MK-801
is relatively free of these effects, thus listing MK-801 with ketamine is misleading, 
to say the least.

If you wish to list other dissociative agents, you should certainly include
tiletamine, the N-ethyl, thienyl analog of ketamine. In admixture with a
benzodiazepine, it is known as Telazol, and is used as an animal

Hopefully this information has been of possible utility..
Respectfully, S

From: T. Swiss
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: Re: "Hard" Drug Legalization (was Re: Eskimo North Users Meeting & Iniative Measure 595)

     Let's look at that most demonized of all drugs, PCP. Turns you into a
violent supercriminal, right? Wrong.

     Here's what the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services said in _Drug
Abuse and Drug Abuse Research_, an annual report to Congress. (1991, p 153)

        "There are two aspects to phencyclidine (PCP) intoxication that
        have warranted particular attention by the general public, as well
        as by law-enforcement and clinical personnel.  Both aspects concern
        the relationship between phencyclidine abuse and aggressive 
        behavior.  There are reports of increased aggressiveness and 
        'super-human' strength that develop in some people who take

        Recent studies, including those of men arrested for criminal
        activity in Washington D.C. and New York City (Wish 1986) and
        evaluations of published clinical reports of phencyclidine
        intoxication (Brecher et al. 1988), indicate that if 
        phencyclidine induces violent, criminal behavior, it does so only
        extremely infrequently.  

        Although Wish (1986) noted that most men who had urines positive
        for phencyclidine were younger than those who had taken no drugs
        or other drugs, their crimes were likely to be __less aggressive__
        than the crimes of those who had not taken phencyclidine.  
        [emphasis added -ma]  Khajawall et al. (1982) found no
        difference in the behavior of clients admitted for phencyclidine
        detoxification and those admitted for opioid detoxification.  __Thus,
        phencylidine-induced aggression appears to be a rare phenomenon,
        if it occurs at all__. [emph -ma]"

cited references:

        Wish, E.D.  PCP and crime:  just another illicit drug?  _Natl
                Inst Drug Abuse Res Monogr Ser_ 64:174-189, 1986.

        Brecher, M.; Wang, B.W.; Wong, H.; and Morgan, J.P.  Phencyclidine
                and violence:  clinical and legal issues.  _J Clinical
                Psychopharmacology_ 8:397-401, 1988.

        Khajawall, A.M.; Erickson, T.B.; and Simpson, G.M.  Chronic 
                phencyclidine abuse and physical assault.  _Am J
                Psychiat_  139:1604-1606, 1982.