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The End of the Rabbit Hole - Beauty and Terror
2C-E, Cannabis, Choline, DMAE, Kratom & Piracetam
by Xorkoth
Citation:   Xorkoth. "The End of the Rabbit Hole - Beauty and Terror: An Experience with 2C-E, Cannabis, Choline, DMAE, Kratom & Piracetam (ID 48983)". Erowid.org. Dec 23, 2005. erowid.org/exp/48983

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DOSE: T+ 0:00 950 mg oral Piracetam  
  T+ 0:00 300 mg oral DMAE  
  T+ 0:00 18 mg oral 2C-E (powder / crystals)
  T+ 1:44 2 hits smoked Cannabis (plant material)
  T+ 3:47 10 g oral Kratom (tea)

BODY WEIGHT: 150 lb


10:00pm (T+00:00)- Ingested 18mg 2C-E hydrochloride in liquid suspension. Watching the end of a Simpsons episode, then turning on my new playlist and browsing the Internet. Actually, the episode just ended, so I guess that part can be skipped! I also ingested 950mg of piracetam, 500mg of choline, and 300mg of DMAE a couple of hours ago. I had hoped to have my hydergine and vinpocetine by now also, but alas, it was not to be.

10:23pm (T+00:23) - I have a good feeling about this. I read the report of my last (mis)adventure with 2C-E, which I never submitted to Erowid. It was short, as I had a pretty bad time on a low dose - 12mg - and I didn't feel it provided anything significant. I feel that I should really, really go outside later. But I'll miss the music, I'm sure! I've decided I'm going to fake being sick tomorrow and not go in to work, though I'll still work from home. The reason is that I'm going to be up damn near all night and I'll be too tired! Also, I'm going to have absolutely nothing to do at work, and it'll be extremely boring. I just felt the first twinge in my gut that tells me the drug is beginning to work its magic.

10:31pm (T+00:31) - Ooh, there's an alert. A strange indefinable sense of lightness in my chest and head. I'm reading the experience report '2C-Enchronicity' and I'm finding it to be quite interesting, though I've read it before.

10:36pm (T+00:36) - I'm starting to get wavering at the edges of my vision already. I have a sensual feeling coursing through my body, along with a slight weirdness in the stomach. Light sources are beginning to get haloes. That weirdness has escalated to a definite minor nausea.

10:50pm (T+00:50) - Whoo... coming on strong. I called up Leslie to say goodnight, and I suddenly had to throw up right before the end of the conversation. It was very gross and acidic, but despite this, my body feeling isn't unpleasant at all. It's actually quite pleasant now that the nausea is gone; not like that 2C-T-2 feeling of toxicity. Man, that barf kicked it in, though. Massive wavering in the corners of my vision, with flashes of light occurring around me. Like last time, it has a 'golden' feel to it.

10:57pm (T+00:57) - Tracers are starting big-time. Everything seems covered in a haze, as if my vision was blurrier than it actually is. Everything looks a little cartoonish.

11:04pm (T+01:04) - This is almost too intense for me to even read. I keep being forced to close my eyes briefly. Going to go break up some nugs for future vaporization before that, too, becomes impossible.

11:08pm (T+01:08) - Having nothing in my stomach does not deter it from attempting to revoke its contents. However, looking at the puke that was already in the toilet from before became a very interesting prospect, as it continually shifted colors and textures. I noticed my puke was partly undigested food, and partly a white foamy substance that had flecks of brilliant blue and green in it. At this point, I'm pretty sure that's not a hallucination as I can stare at it from several different perspectives and it remains the same.

11:13pm (T+01:13) - I keep thinking of things I want to write down but then can't remember what they are . Whoa, my brain was just way ahead of my fingers... I thought I was typing 'write' in that last sentence but I was already on 'what they are'.

11:23pm (T+01:23) - Puke again. Despite the pain involved with my stomach-wrenchings, I really don't mind having to puke. It's not ruining the vibe at all. When I was in the bathroom, a huge array of thoughts bubbled forth, in a cycle. Color enhancement is definitely big. I noticed extremely minute differences in color tones as if they were each separate colors.

11:33pm (T+01:33) - I'm feeling a vibration through everything. Man, the mood of the music sure makes all the difference. My pupils have attained a truly massive diameter.

11:44pm (T+01:44) - Taking my hits of MJ. This drug really feels so much more natural, emotional, real than the others, particularly 2C-T-2. Like I can feel the beat of the universe.

12:40am (T+02:40) - Holy FUCKING shit. I fell right into the rabbit hole this time. The music was just too much for me

Oh my god... I can't believe what just happened. I literally

12:48am (T+02:48) - SO many levels

I absolutely can't deal with this anymore. There's no longer a base for anything to stand on whateo0ever.

pure synronicty

TTOOOTOTOTOTOTOTO FAR

for christ's sake, make it stop. I'm so far in the brabbit ho,e bb



THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING. i HAVE NO BASE. tHIS IS ABSOLUTELY TERRIBYING



TIME dolation. I don't exist. Oh fucking shut. This shit it too fast. I'm feelng

NOTHIHNG NOTHING NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHUIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNGG I am eternity

There is noend to the somehow everything fits. Everything on every level it's all infinite finite infinite. I'm experiencing infinity here. I am nothibg Whoa.

Consciousness is an sbolute joke. No, free will is/.. Nothing matters at all , ATAKK (ed: I have no memory of typing this part, the ATAKK)

I only know that time is passing because I know that it must be. This shit is too deep... it never ends. EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.

This is IT. The center. But of course we've not even begun ton reveal the depths

I think it may be reconstructing. But no...

1:45am (T+03:45) - TRhere is no point in absolutely anything.. This is literally deeper than I've ever gone and something

1:37am (T+03:37) - Time literally moved in reverse there!

I've never not been before

Hey man.

Oh man. I'm gonna have a hard time pulling my ego out of this one.

I wanted something that showed me something like this, but faced with the void.... it fills me with unspeakable dread

This is the +4... I'm battling death more real than

1:47am (T+03:47) - A complete ego death - by submission

PLEASE remember to drink the kratom

2:17am (T+04:17) - Some time was lost here... floating in the sea of unbeing.... for real. Kratom seemed to have finally brought me back to this reality. Everything I ever knew has been undermined, predetermined, made obsolete. That was absolutely humbling

I'm afraid to try to remember... I finally got out of it. At the end there, my final thought I could possibly hang on to I decided I must write down - drink the kratom! Maybe then I'd be able to escape this madness! and I guess it worked. I'm far from sober (still light +3/strong +2), but compared to where my mind was at... phew. I think I just experienced true ego death, as I have no perception of the last half hour.

Man oh man... this drug is IT. I was one with the answer. I WAS the answer. The answer is - everything and nothing. This is so abstract it's impossible. Yet it was logically the only thing possible. There is no other drug I know of that can infest so many layers. The absolute breathtaking majesty of the infinite synchronicities that are occurring even now, the infinitesimal little variables which force reality to adhere to this particular frame of reference for one fleeting instant.

I now have more respect for this drug than mushrooms. Hands down. True ego death. I never realized mine would go down kicking and screaming. That really was pure hell for the last period of time there. Mushrooms reduced my ego, they didn't kill it. 2C-E was trying to kill me, literally. I believe that if I'd have lost the struggle, I might not have emerged from the half hour of lost time I just had. I shouldn't say it was trying to kill me - it was nothing personal. It was just showing me the true nature of existence, and in the process myself could no longer logically exist. Strange to realize that from every possible angle you do not logically exist, and to realize this with absolute clarity and certainty. Layer by layer, I was deconstructed. I tried to just exist and vibrate with the intense vibration in my body, but then even that sensation of vibration was shown to be unreal. In fear, I realized that if I gave up control like the drug wanted me to, I may really never come back - the logic of my relentless thoughts left no room to doubt that what I was experiencing was more real than my silly little life, and nothing I could do would change that. I paced back and forth, clenching my fists and muttering to myself, as this was the only stimulation which provided me some sense of still Being; fluttering my eyes around in my head to try to ward off the one thought that would mean the end of me, the one last leap of logic that was right there, so that I wouldn't die that last death from which I may never return. I could not even think these complete thoughts, as my mind struggling to stay away from the end of this chain left no room for anything else.

Layer by layer, reality was stripped bare, to the bone. Exposed. I scrambled for a foothold, anything, for a frame of reference, but inevitably, that too was revealed to me a part of the pattern. Continually, the only conclusion I was able to come to was that my 'self' isn't real; it's just some dream in nothing-land. In reality, there is no 'me', and no time, and no anything at all. Essentially, I've experienced what it is to be god - the infinite, and I've been subjected to the root. We are all part of everything, and everything is the same as nothing.

I think I discovered the root cause of every neurotic issue that people can have. It's all from a very primal fear of 'non-being'.

Remember my body's violent reaction at some points

It was as if I was forever falling out of a psychedelic tapestry, farther and farther out. Every time there was something I could call 'me' it zoomed out another notch. The speed of this was relentless.

I don't think it's even possible to go deeper into the human psyche than I have done tonight. It was a rough ride though. I lived in eternity for eternity. It was inescapable. Music brought me there but this drug is so immersive that I haven't had music on for over an hour, and it took me this long to lock myself into this old frame of reference. I gave up hope countless times, resigned myself to the fact that I'm nothing more than a thought in someone else's head. Or no, wait, actually, THAT is reduced to nothing as well, so I'm nothing! In that inexplicable psychedelic way, I became very sure that was I was seeing was The Real Thing, and my current life was absolutely nothing in comparison to the flow. And the scary part is, it was so convincing that it's still more real to me now. And I think it always will be. I've been shown something which very few are able to glimpse, perhaps for good reason.

This drug is like pure, relentless logic. It takes on an organic life of its own and begins to unravel everything. Everything becomes a synchronicity; that I was meant to do this at this time. All of existence lined up perfectly for it. It shows you this with cold logic, very soberly. But then you start zooming out, coming out of the rabbit hole, so to speak. You begin to see these synchronicities unravel. Before long the very concepts of physical existence unravel. You're left wondering why you're holding that glass, standing in a room? Oh yeah, making kratom... oh, right, in REALITY, I'm not in this reality but a different one. Wait, where am I? Oh, right, there is no me, and all the things I've done up to this point to this being true. Ok, damn, then I was right, I'm nothing... but my mind keeps bouncing off of this concept... into a repeating loop of just the most primal, instinctual fear response.

2:55am (T+04:55)

So I finally experienced an ego death. Man, it was painful. I didn't know I could die on so many levels; I feel that a part of me is gone because of this. I truly had to let go of myself, and that was profound. I had almost constant worries about losing my 'self', that I'd misplace it somewhere in this raging current of flows and be completely unable to find my way back. Is that how people go insane, I wondered? Am I going to be a vegetable? I reached the point where, aside from the continuing visual stimulation I had, I truly believed that I had ceased to exist. My mind had come to the logical conclusion of unbeing so profoundly that I knew of no way that I could not know about it, be aware of it, and that would be that my self as I knew it was no more. The two states of mind were not mutually exclusive. I was absolutely stripped bare, emotionally raw. I was SO close to freaking out, SO close to calling an ambulance, to get them to inject me with a potent anti-psychotic before it was too late and my ego actually died. I truly, truly felt that I was in a fight for my very existence, one that I better not lose.

Fortunately, I guess I must have won. Or have I...? Hopefully I got deposited back into the same reality. It'll really blow my mind if I start noticing some minor but fundamental changes. Although I have no memory of about 25 minutes there around the peak... hmm.

I didn't even know it was possible to get so far out of the rabbit hole. I'd only ever gotten as far as the god-energy, the oneness. But this time, I saw beyond even that, into a vast nothingness that I can't even conceive of, a timeless place. I saw that even god, even the lifeforce, all of existence, is just a dream, a blip in the eye of an even larger pattern... and so it goes. It seemed that I was offered a glimpse to what lies at the heart of EVERYTHING, even life itself. And it was absolutely TERRIFYING. I should mention that, during the peak experience, I often couldn't differentiate between having closed and open eyes. I simply wasn't 'seeing' anymore in the usual sense; all I could see was all of reality unfolding, collapsing, with nothing to hold itself up. Infinitely expanding and infinitely collapsing. I truly became lost to myself, and it was a struggle because I truly felt I had to maintain some inkling of myself or I'd never come back to the me as I know him. Holding a train of thought was impossible, as is probably evidenced by my insane ramblings above... I haven't gone back to read through that, yet. Also, I should mention that time dilation was extreme, to the point where I experienced infinity. Also, I definitely experienced time go backwards at one point, when I wrote an observation at 1:45 and then my next was at 1:37. I also became actually quite alarmed at one point by my physical reactions, which were I believe entirely psychosomatic. It was during the time when I was being shown that I'm not real, and I was fighting to keep some shred of my self, and my heart was beating very fast. I was having shoulder/chest pains, and I felt that my body was under extreme duress. After this passed, it was as if nothing of the sort had happened and I felt fine, albeit with a sore back and bruised ego.

It was so strange and somehow... sad, that I had to repeatedly die on so many levels. I lost every single connection that I could have possibly had to my conception of reality. I had no reference point at all. It was all gone, reduced to nothingness, shown how it is obsolete in the face of this drug's relentless logic. It was weird, because I was having a great time, enjoying rather superficial closed-eye soundscapes, when all of a sudden, I plunged headfirst into the rabbit hole.

It truly was an Infinite Complexity of Significance. It was more immersive than any other drug I've done, including mushrooms. That's right, a phenethylamine with greater depth than a tryptamine. The reason is because tryptamines, to me, bring you out to the farthest reaches of reality, to enter the lifeforce. 2C-E took me beyond the lifeforce and into the void. It truly was the most afraid I've ever been in my life. And it's even more amazing and complete than I'd ever thought possible. I felt like every possible synapse in my brain was firing, and I was perceiving reality in such a complete way that it was impossible to have an ego. In my newfound brilliance, I logically deduced that I didn't exist, so it began to be so. But it was impossible to deny, though I tried constantly to do so. As others have reported, I felt very strongly that there was an uncanny level of structure, including a shocking amount that HAD to have been predetermined. I felt like I was waking up. Many themes from the first time were revisited, only this time, instead of making no sense, they made complete sense; TOO MUCH sense. However, as was probably a good thing considering the level of freaking out I already did, the images of abduction and human suffering were absent.

I'm also appreciating the nice, 'rolling' quality of this plateau. The intensity is dropped to a manageable level, but the mind is left receptive enough to partially grasp what has just happened. Although the drop-off in acute effects is sudden, it was welcome. I experienced a moment during the peak that stretched to infinity. Unfortunately it occurred while I was fighting to save myself.


THE NEXT DAY

Man, oh man. Integrating the experience I had last night is going to be difficult, but, I think, possible. I feel intensely enlightened, to the point where I feel that I may have eaten from the 'tree of knowledge'; in order words, I may have been too far in the rabbit hole. Or perhaps I came too far out of it. In any case, what I saw was both impossible, terrifying, and completely logically sound. Let me attempt to explain as best I can, from the beginning... of course my description in language will do the experience absolutely no justice, not offer any real glimpse into the beautiful terror I witnessed.

First, I'd like to say that today I feel fine, albeit a little tired as I didn't get to bed until 5:30am and it's now 8:48 (I got up early to work from home today). The difficult experience I had caused many physical symptoms to manifest due to my difficulty in letting go of my self, but these seem to be entirely psychosomatic. I'd like to stress that, while my experience was terrifying and was the only time I've ever truly been afraid even with my logical mind that I wasn't going to be okay, it was still a worthwhile experience that I think I'm glad I had, and that anyway was extremely interesting and enlightening. However, it makes me think about death a little more, and wonder if maybe I don't really know what's out there as much as I thought mushrooms had told me. It turns out, this drug ended up being deeper than any other I've ever encountered, due to the fact that it took me beyond existence to the void, and it revealed to me impossible, infinite synchronicities in a majestic tapestry that defies sober explanation. It was truly profound beyond anything words could ever represent.

I started out consuming 950mg of piracetam and some DMAE a few hours previous to the 2C-E. Perhaps this was the reason for the massive leap in intensity over my last, identical-dosage experiment. Or perhaps it's because I was alone, with only my own thoughts to keep me company. Probably a little bit of both. In any case, at 10:00 (T+0), I swallowed the 18mg of 2C-E in liquid, all at once before remembering that I should consume it over 15 minutes. In any case, over the next hour or so, alerts and normal effects proceeded as I expected. At about T+1 hour, the mental effects began, subtle at first. It was just an inability to deal with my visual stimuli in my usual speed, as my brain felt overstimulated. Color enhancement kicked in around this time, also, as well as significant wavering and breathing of everything within my visual field. I was kneeling in front of the toilet, and every minute little yellow color I saw in my puke stood out as if it were its own, unique color from every other shade. There were too many individual shades to count. Some looked more green than yellow after closer examination.

At about T+1:15-1:30, I began to notice a dramatic speeding up of my thoughts, like when I took mushrooms the first time. Not only were my thoughts ahead of my hands when typing, but I could no longer communicate the trains of thought I was having, as they were switching so rapidly and becoming so inexplicable.

At T+1:45 (this exact time is customary for me now on trips) I took two good vaporizer hits of some top-quality cannabis. I laid back and closed my eyes along with the music. It was Pink Floyd's Cluster One, followed by some ambient music tracks by Shpongle, Mystical Sun, and Spacetime Continuum. I honestly can't remember any closed eye visuals at this point, or what exactly my thought process was. It was simply too abstract for my conscious mind to now even remember. All I know is it involved dissecting reality from all angles with a driving sense of pure logic, that attacked one point at a time, endlessly. The music was absolutely PERFECT for this experience, full of synchronicities and loops which fed this increasing mind fuck. It seems to me now that my brain was starting to deconstruct reality. I began to feel as if I was in tune with the heartbeat of the universe. Between the times of T+1:45 to T+2:45, I often would 'come to' slightly and realize that my eyes had been wide open and staring, though I had forgotten I even had eyes.

At about T+2:45, where I first exclaimed in my notes above that I had fallen way into the rabbit hole, I think was where I first entered the thought loop, the extreme mind-fuck. The music brought me to a point where I had logically deduced, in all seriousness, that nothing really existed, including my own ego. The sensation of falling inside my head was so strong that I bolted upright, and began to have panic attack type of physical reactions.

Let me try to explain this thought loop, for it was the core of my trip. I became this thought loop. Naturally, I suppose, my ego became completely intertwined with my thoughts. It was as if I was constantly 'zooming out', seeing layer upon layer of reality, each layer being one infinitesimal quality of my life that I had known to be true. One variable of existence, you could say. At an astonishing rate, these layers were being made aware to me, and then after less than a tenth of a second (perhaps... I really had no conception of time anymore at all. It moved at a crawl) this logic which I can no longer understand forced me to realize that this variable was simply put in place by my brain to deal with reality, and was in fact not real. It was as if I was continually waking up to remember that my previous thought had been a delusion. Well, this went on in increasing intensity until almost 2:00 (T+4:00). In that period of time, I went farther and farther away from reality. About T+3:00, I began to notice the synchronicities that people talk about with 2C-E. At first it was just a few isolated points here and there, things which, in my process of waking up, were realized to have been put into place specifically to lead up to this moment. I wish I could explain that part better, but alas; such is the nature of psychedelics. From T+3 to T+4, I noticed these increase at an alarming rate, until I felt that I could literally see every piece of existence had been leading up to one moment - the moment that I woke up fully, into Unbeing. I couldn't believe my mixed senses (rather than eyes at this point). Somehow, I was seeing what I'd always suspected, that in any particular instance of reality, every little infinitesimal thing was fixed. Free will is nonexistent - everything is predetermined. This is true because I am part of the lifeforce, and am therefore god, when my ego is removed, as was being done. Furthermore, god (existence) is just a dream, from which I am about to wake up from. Beyond this, there was simply a yawning void of absolute nothingness, Nonbeing, no longer perceiving. I was experiencing the often imagined but never experienced idea of not existing. As the synchronicities increased exponentially, I could see them pointing inexorably toward the only logical conclusion left, which was this Unbeing. I became extremely afraid, as I could no longer hold a train of thought. I became, for the first time, truly, to the depth of my being, afraid during a psychedelic experience, a very real fear that was made all the more worse by the fact that my logical mind was the one mediating the experience. I could not deny it. This was The Truth, and I was powerless to stop it. I became very afraid that I would get lost in this reduction to unbeing, and my ego would simply cease to be, or become lost. At some point in there, far after time had become meaningless, I made a note in my trip log at 1:45, and then the next note I made seemingly a few minutes later was at 1:37. I have no idea how this happened, and the only other time I've experienced time moving in reverse was during my first mushroom trip I linked to above. I should mention that the majority of this deconstruction took place between 1:37 (1:45?) and 1:57, in either 10 or 18 minutes.

I ran downstairs as best as my body would allow and began to boil water to make kratom, which I felt was the only thing that could save me by bringing my mind back to a manageable level. While I was downstairs, time began to stretch into infinity, until at some particular moment I felt it reach infinity. At this point, I was so dangerously close to Unbeing that my thought process stopped, and I experienced a moment of literal eternity. The heartbeat of the universe stopped, and I was left in ringing silence that was absolute, in stark contrast to the incredible amount of mental noise I had just been experiencing. The only reason I knew I still existed on some level was that my visual input was continuing in a linear fashion. Then the strangest thing happened... I began to see what I can only explain as a reverse passage of the thought loop begin, with the other side of the countless variables that had been put into place. This is an extremely difficult concept to communicate, as it doesn't lend itself very well to language. However, with this new direction, I began to think my ego was getting deposited back into a new reality that was somehow different from the one I had left. It was as if the wheels of existence had slowed, slowed, slowed, until they ground to a halt and I was one with the infinite, with the Unbeing, and then they began to slowly turn back, in the opposite direction.

At this point (and for some time before) I was completely terrified, as is evidenced by my trip notes. I became sure that if I allowed my brain to fully reach that Final Conclusion, that my ego would fully die, and I would cease to be anymore. I really felt like the 2C-E was trying to kill me, but this was a complete and total death, on an infinite number of levels that I never even knew existed until last night. Holding on was causing me extreme anguish and duress, not to mention acute physical symptoms. My heart rate felt as if it was going up, up, up, to impossible levels, though I had no quantitative way of measuring this nor the presence of mind to try. I was having chest and shoulder pains, and severe abdominal twinges. I was constantly on the verge of calling 911, and thought about the large knife in my kitchen drawer more than once. I felt that even dying a physical death would save me from my eternal, spiritual death that I was facing, like if I could get away from the effects of the drug on my brain, I'd reenter the lifeforce as a speck in the sea of collective consciousness like I thought I was supposed to, and live on as me, as opposed to becoming Nothing. I wanted to call an ambulance because I felt a better alternative was to get injected with some thorazine to interrupt the trip before it was too late. I simply cannot stress enough the incredible urgency I had. It was as if every instant I was waking up further, reaffirming the absolute terrifying knowledge that I was not, in fact, real. It was the only logical conclusion. It was the most terrifying experience of my life, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, honestly. Not even my worst enemy. My only solace was that I knew people had been to extreme states before, and they always came back the next day. Also, my visual input was suggesting that I was not, in fact, ceasing to exist. But this was weak when put up against the relentless, irrefutable logic.

At this point, I continued to get farther and farther away from reality and closer to Unbeing, as my ego became exhausted from fighting. I realized to my horror that I wouldn't be able to hold it back forever, that I'd have to give in. I simply wasn't strong enough. I got back upstairs with my kratom, and managed to write in my notes, desperately 'PLEASE remember to drink the kratom'. Then, I did drink it, at the urging from my note that I had just written. After that, the next thing I remember is realizing my eyes were open and it had jumped from 1:57 to 2:17 in an instant. However, I also realized that the kratom had kicked in and I only had vestiges of this terrifying thought loop remaining in my brain that I was able to emerge from. I still felt that it was real, though, which is the scary part. I felt that I had eaten the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, and that I now knew too much. However, at this point it was again bearable, and I began writing copious notes about my thoughts and impressions.

I had experienced true ego death, by submission. I didn't know I'd die kicking and screaming. I died a million deaths last night, each one more complete and ironic than the last. Throughout it all, the irony was not lost on me. Somehow, it was all so incredibly scripted that it was ironic, which would have been funny if not for the sheer terror and the gravity of the situation. The ego death was so complete that, unlike my ego shrinking (which I thought was a death until now) on mushrooms, I have no memory whatsoever of the 20 minutes before the kratom kicked in and kicked me out of that state. I simply ceased to Be.

I became aware during this where the root of all of human neuroticism lies - the fear of non-being. I know this to be true at some deeply subconscious level even if I don't understand exactly why anymore the next day. It was as if, when each level was peeled away, some instinctual neurotic response to it bubbled forth from my ego, a denial, a refusal to believe. And then it was systematically shut down, only to be replaced by another, in a neverending torrent of vicious thoughts that only stopped when I let myself cease (die). It was very profound because I truly let myself go, accepting that I might never return. I simply had no choice. I experienced that extremely abstract and psychedelic idea that we are all part of everything, but everything is infinite and infinity is really nothing. Very mathematical in nature, which is why it was so scary - it was shown to be true repeatedly, irrefutably. Infinity and zero can be shown to be two sides of the same coin in higher math - I know because I have a math major I graduated with.

I didn't even know it was possible to get so far out of the rabbit hole. I'd only ever gotten as far as the god-energy, the oneness. But this time, I saw beyond even that, into a vast nothingness that I can't even conceive of, a timeless place. I saw that even god, even the lifeforce, all of existence, is just a dream, a blip in the eye of an even larger pattern, an even infinitely larger pattern that I could only conceive of as Unbeing... and so it goes. It seemed that I was offered a glimpse to what lies at the heart of EVERYTHING, even life itself. And it was absolutely TERRIFYING. I should mention that, during the peak experience, I often couldn't differentiate between having closed and open eyes. I simply wasn't 'seeing' anymore in the usual sense; all I could see was all of reality unfolding, collapsing, with nothing to hold itself up. Infinitely expanding and infinitely collapsing.

I transcended the visuals... I saw themes from my original experience but this time I wasn't even aware of visuals during the peak. I became them, lived them, entered into full-on hallucinations that I was unable to distinguish from reality.

It was as if I entered that thought loop through listening to the music with eyes closed. Once I was in there, it was impossible to get out. It was literally a neverending thought loop of irrefutable logic, the end result of which I was trying desperately not to get to even though I knew what it was - unbeing. This was very real and serious. It makes me think about what the mushrooms have shown me, as I was so sure I knew what death would bring - a merging with the lifeforce, an ego shrinking until you became part of everything. Although, I think I still believe that. It still fits as the 2C-E world I saw was another level out in the vast, infinite pattern of existence. It's just that the 2C-E was trying to bring me beyond that, to a place that humans were not meant to go or see.

This is NOT (NOT!!!) a beginner's drug. The place I was at caused me to have all kinds of insane thoughts. I truly felt that I was in danger of losing my sanity forever, and I had important thoughts such as suicide and giving in to the loss of sanity that someone with less experience would have possibly not been able to set aside. I also was literally a few key presses away from dialing 911 and having myself committed. If I had needed to interact with someone, especially police, I'd have had NO means of doing so at ANY level. My train of thought was changing so rapidly that conversation would have been a series of disjointed words no matter how hard I tried.

Hmm.. I just discovered a weird coincidence. My girlfriend called at 11:37 last night, 3 times, which was EXACTLY the moment which I entered reality again 8 minutes earlier than my last memory before it. Quite strange.

All in all, I'm not sure if I can do 2C-E again, though I'm glad I had the experience as it was very enlightening. However, I went farther in than I've ever thought possible, and I don't particularly want to ever go so far in again. It was definitely a very dangerous state of mind. This experience makes a +4 on mushrooms look tame by comparison. I had a +4 last night, that mystical, irrefutable experience that changes you forever. Except I'd call it more like a +5... take care, everyone, with this drug. It's the most powerful I've ever encountered. People who cannot handle the kind of experience I've described have no business taking this drug, and I pray that you won't, because you might not be as lucky as me to escape (seemingly) unscathed.

For those of you who wish to see what I've seen, my the force be with you. Be prepared as I was not, and remember to have some way out of this thought loop at some point (mine was kratom. Benzodiazepines probably would have worked even better). And be prepared to go deeper than you ever thought possible. And for the love of god, I can't understand how someone could take more than 18mg of this, like the reports of people taking up to 50mg. My only explanation is they must have very impure 2C-E, or they were given something like 2C-I which really is like a child's toy compared to this True Psychedelic.
Take care.

Exp Year: 2005ExpID: 48983
Gender: Male 
Age at time of experience: Not Given 
Published: Dec 23, 2005Views: 172,462
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Experience Reports are the writings and opinions of the individual authors who submit them.
Some of the activities described are dangerous and/or illegal and none are recommended by Erowid Center.


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